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Movies

All the Pretty Carnage

Remorseless murder isn’t all there is to No Country for Old Men, but it’s all anyone seems to care about.

No Country for Old Men | Written and Directed by Ethan and Joel Coen

No Country for Old Men

No Country for Old Men

Opens Fri 11/9 at multiple venues

November 8, 2007

The first thing we demand of a wall is that it shall stand up. If it stands up, it is a good wall, and the question of what purpose it serves is separable from that. And yet even the best wall in the world deserves to be pulled down if it surrounds a concentration camp. —George Orwell

I tend to get flustered when people ask me what I look for in movies, so I’m wary of theorizing too much about what other people want from them. Moviegoers generally seem to fall into one of two categories: those looking for experiences similar to ones they’ve already had and those looking for experiences that are new. Though I’m usually among the latter, I’m sometimes curious about why people return to certain pleasures, especially when I don’t share their taste.

One reason I tend to dislike movies about psycho killers is that I can’t respond to them with the devotion I feel is expected of me. I’m too distracted by the abundance of these characters on-screen when they rarely appear in real life, and by how popular they seem to become whenever we’re fighting a war. What is it about them that people find so exciting? Reviewing The Silence of the Lambs over 16 years ago, I was troubled by the way the thriller tapped into “irrational, mythical impulses that ultimately seem more theological than psychological,” and how critics who loved it seemed “better equipped to regurgitate the myth than to analyze it.”

I was especially bemused by the ready acceptance of Hannibal Lecter’s supernatural powers—his ability to convince a hostile prisoner in an adjoining cell to swallow his own tongue, for instance, or to know precisely when and where to reach Clarice, the movie’s heroine, on the phone. Anthony Hopkins’s Oscar-winning performance may be stark and commanding, but it wouldn’t have counted for beans if the audience hadn’t already been predisposed to accept this murderer as some sort of divine presence.

The waves of love that went out to Lecter, epitomized by the five top Oscars the movie received in 1992, were a mix of giggly fascination, twisted affection, and outright awe for his absolute lack of remorse. This was during the first gulf war, a time when we were grappling with our own feelings about killing masses of people on a daily basis. I suspect Lecter represented a savior of sorts, a saintlike holy psycho who made us feel less uneasy about wanton slaughter.

We may not feel the same kind of affection for the real psycho killers in our midst, but they do inspire similar fear, fascination, and mythologizing. Seung-Hui Cho was clearly crazy when he slaughtered 32 people at Virginia Tech last April, but he was also smart enough to know there was no question that if he sent a media kit off to the national press they’d use it. He might have had more power to get himself onto the cover of Newsweek than the editors would have had if they’d wanted to keep him off.

No Country for Old Men premiered at Cannes in May and was widely heralded as the festival’s most sensational entry. When I saw it for the first time at the Toronto film festival in September, the only movie that gave it any competition in the popularity contest was Lars and the Real Girl. Adapted from what is generally considered a minor Cormac McCarthy novel, No Country for Old Men is a very well-made genre exercise, but I can’t understand why it’s been accorded so much importance, unless it’s because it strokes some ideological impulse.

Much the same could be said of Lars and the Real Girl, a fantasy about communal life in a small town that the Reader’s J.R. Jones has aptly described as “Capraesque,” not to mention an evasive (and no less endearing) glossing over of disturbed sexuality (astutely unpacked in the New York Times by Manohla Dargis). As someone who grew up in a small town, I could certainly detect the falsity of the film’s premise—that everybody cares about everybody else, fuckups included—while at the same time admiring the skill of the actors in putting it across. As for its popularity, I can only guess that it must be rooted in the rosy, highly sentimentalized picture it offers of human nature.

The picture of human nature in No Country for Old Men is by contrast so bleak I wonder if it must provide for some a reassuring explanation for our defeatism and apathy in the face of atrocity. I admire the creativity and storytelling craft of the Coen brothers, but I can’t for the life of me figure out what use they think they’re putting that creativity and craft to. As I left the screening in Toronto, all I could think was, “America sure loves its mass murderers.” That conclusion was ratified by a line in the New York film festival’s blurb for the movie: “Wearing an unforgettably frightening pageboy and toting a cattle stun gun that’ll haunt your nightmares, Javier Bardem is Anton Chigurh, a psychopathic assassin of the highest order whose detachment is as shocking as the carnage photographed so gorgeously by DP Roger Deakins.”

I hasten to add there’s more to this grim, ambitious movie than a psychopathic assassin of the highest order whose carnage is gorgeously shot, though I seriously doubt it would be garnering so much enthusiasm without such perks. The intricate plot, set in rural Texas, involves three characters chasing after Llewelyn Moss (Josh Brolin), a lovable salt-of-the-earth type who stumbles upon $2 million and a mess of dead bodies in the wake of a blown drug deal in the desert. There’s the narrator, Ed Tom Bell (Tommy Lee Jones), a melancholy sheriff nearing retirement who investigates the murders. There’s Chigurh, an associate of the drug dealers who’s bent on recovering the money and totally unconcerned with how many innocent people he wipes out in the process. (Recalling some of the stylish moves that made Pulp Fiction such a hit, he idly tortures some of his victims with arcane mind games before shooting them.) And finally there’s Carson Wells (Woody Harrelson), a hired gun who offers some comic relief.

This grisly thriller qualifies in some ways as a remake of the Coens’ Fargo, with Bell and Moss jointly taking over the role of Frances McDormand’s pregnant sheriff. Bell is the film’s moral center, the law in the midst of greed and senseless death. Moss, already marked by his relative indifference to the suffering of a dying Mexican in the opening sequence, becomes lovable only during his affectionate banter with his wife, Carla Jean (Kelly Macdonald). He’s the character we’re supposed to identify with, especially when he’s trying to match wits with the psycho killer.

In the past, the Coens have gotten a lot of mileage out of ridiculing most country folk for their stupidity while singling out a chosen few for admiration. But here, in deference to the source material, the condescension is toned down considerably. They show off their narrative expertise by converting some of the sheriff’s plaintive monologues into terse dialogue and even more in the way they juxtapose the separate movements of Moss and Chigurh, sketching out a suspenseful cat-and-mouse game with some of the primal impact of silent pictures.

What gives all of this a special kick is the way the killer commits murder without so much as a twitch, behavior we’re clearly expected to regard with a certain amount of awe. Chigurh isn’t an intellectual like Hannibal Lecter, and he lacks his cosmopolitan sense of humor, but he slays many more innocent people. And except for a stray line toward the end of the film, when he briefly alludes to his own birth being occasioned by blind chance, there isn’t a trace of psychological speculation about what makes him tick—only a passing remark by Carson Wells that he operates according to a twisted moral code of his own.

Early in the film (and in the novel), Sheriff Bell recalls arresting a boy who killed a 14-year-old girl. Some people described it as a crime of passion, but Bell says the boy had wanted to kill someone for as long as he could remember, that he knew he was going to hell, and that he would kill again if he could. The story brings to mind the Misfit, a character in Flannery O’Connor’s “A Good Man Is Hard to Find” who randomly wipes out an entire family in a comparable act of nihilistic desperation.

In O’Connor’s vision, perfectly captured in a mere 16 pages, the Misfit is an emblem of religious despair, but in the less considered genre mechanics of Cormac McCarthy and the Coens, religious despair is nothing more than an alibi for violence. It’s invoked as a way of covering all the bases, tapping into fundamentalist fatalism without really buying into it. Bell’s wounded sense of morality in the face of so much bloodshed frames the action, but one reason why I suspect some critics reject this device while embracing everything else is that they intuit how little conviction the Coens bring to it.

There’s a certain cleverness in the way the Coens, after piling on the corpses in the opening sequences, elide some of Chigurh’s actual murders toward the end, flattering the audience by suggesting they’re sophisticated enough to imagine the gorgeous carnage all by themselves. They even manage to acknowledge briefly the relevance of all this mayhem to the present occupation of Iraq (albeit somewhat anachronistically, as the action is set in 1980). At one point, Bell ruefully reflects to a colleague, “It’s just all-out war—there isn’t any other word for it,” and goes on to comment about the sad times we’re living in, when some people even resort to senseless torture, making particular allusion to Abu Ghraib by mentioning a torturer placing a dog collar around the neck of one of his victims.

But just because the Coens are hip enough to know the contemporary audience they’re addressing doesn’t mean they have anything to say we don’t already know, about Abu Ghraib or anything else. What I suspect they’re really offering us is a convenient cop-out: we can allow dog collars to be used even while we hypocritically shake our heads at the sadness of it all.   

Send a letter to the editor.

Comments

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PJ Atkinson at 9:06 AM on 11/9/2007

I always find your reviews of interest Mr Rosenbaum, I would take issue with your analysis of the Misfit's actions in Flannery O’Connor’s exemplary "A Good Man Is Hard to Find". You write that he "randomly wipes out an entire family in a comparable act of nihilistic desperation" However there is nothing random in the family's murders, indeed they are the entirely rational acts of a group of career criminals. Whilst the meeting of the two parties' cars is a random event (though one whose inevitability provides the thrust in the first half of the story) the decision to kill the entire family is motivated by the "professionalism" of the criminals to whom murder is part of their chosen vocation

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Jonathan at 10:00 AM on 11/9/2007

Party politics over aesthetics, over philosophy... Over everything.

Same old Rosenbaum.

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Dcrich at 12:18 PM on 11/9/2007

Or you could worry less about what response is expected of you and just respond to the movie directly. This sort of meta-stance is pompous and grating.

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Jon C. at 12:37 PM on 11/9/2007

Of course we're supposed to regard Chigurh with a certain amount of awe. His very name suggests (quite literally) the unspeakable. I think this works better in the novel, where Chigurh's actions are to me one of a piece with his glyphic name; this evil only exists on the page, in our heads. (Though you may well be right about religious despair serving as an alibi.) Might onscreen embodiment itself be the problem here, however potent Bardem's acting and the Coens' technique? On the other hand, maybe technique's at fault, in which case I wonder if the film would've been more effective were the carnage less, as you put it, "gorgeous." I'm thinking particularly of "Dead Man," where the sloppiness of rather sensational violence forces a consideration of our response to screen violence in general - something wholly foreign to the Coens' films.

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CW at 1:04 PM on 11/9/2007

This isn't a blog, why are there comments? Write a letter to the editor if you disagree; I'd prefer to see R's reasoned, structured essays alone, without the stain of whatever yokel wants to call out from the shooting gallery.

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Rick at 1:33 PM on 11/9/2007

Hey CW, anyone ever call you a hypocrite?

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Zexa at 1:51 PM on 11/9/2007

Rosie- Maybe you would have less trouble understanding audiences if you actually understood something about human beings instead of hiding behind ideology all the time, it's kinda sad.

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Mike Goetz at 2:15 PM on 11/9/2007

This review seems a bit histrionic. Who would have believed a Coen brothers movie merited a denunciatory Orwell quote on concentration camps?

On top of this, a very partially-baked diagnosis of psycho killers as society's symbolic personification of its lust for war. And the Coens are supposed to be the ones condescending to the audience?

What I saw was a very tense, well-made, entertaining B-thriller. I didn't realize that made me a war criminal.

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Anthony Paley at 3:44 PM on 11/9/2007

I very much agree with CW. I actually saw No Country For Old Men at the London Film Festival last week (where it was the "surprise" movie). I have views on the film — I have not been affected by a movie as much for a very long time — but would rather see Jonathan Rosenbaum's review unadorned by readers' comments. I don't think it's hypocritical to say that on the actual page here and post it as part of this blog. I would hope the arts editor, or whoever is repsonsible for the adding of comments, gets the message and doesn't have them there in future.

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DAL at 4:49 PM on 11/9/2007

God forbid that anyone actually criticize the Coen Brothers or discuss them in relation to things happening outside of a movie theater. Sarkozy is remaking France as America; must we make America more like France?

Thanks, JR, for another thoughtful analysis that doesn't let your readers off the hook. And I agree we can do without the comments on the long reviews, mine included.

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Jonathan at 5:21 PM on 11/9/2007

1. The single star doesn't at all seem to match the content of the review; unless Rosenbaum really does care as little about aesthetics as he often seems to. I assume he's exalting in his imaginary authority by scoring the film down.

2. Stuart Klawans has already written this review, in a purer and more comically overwrought form. It's his Wild at Heart review, included in a "best of The Nation" book. He too makes the point that many films are awfully upsetting, and that it's naughty to upset him. See also Roger Ebert's Blue Velvet review, another classic of the I-was-totally-within-its-grips-but-no-no-no
it-is-wicked-I-tell-you genre.

3. I can't wait until there are not two, but twenty comments from commenters saying they disapprove of commenting. I hope the additional ones stay in line with the dainty, prim tone of the intial ones. And I hope none of you boys spill your champagne while you're deigning to fraternize with the polity.

4. I haven't seen this film yet, but it looks to be a powerful and bracing experience. Those have been rather popular since around the time of Sophocles, you know.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:46 PM on 11/9/2007

Jonathan Rosenbaum says he looks for something new in movies, but aren’t the kind of ‘new’ movies that he prefers old hat already? There is nothing substantially new about much of Art Film. Usually, they simply eschew ‘conventional’ narrative. Old or new what really matters is ‘does it work?’
A movie with insufferable and pointless long takes may be ‘new’ or ‘different’ but is it any good simply because it’s ‘new’? Too often, I think no-talents hide behind avant-gardism. How many Art Film directors today are really on the level of true geniuses like Bresson, Resnais, Bergman, or Teshigahara? Instead, they’ve just conformed to the label of the ‘new’ or ‘radical’. It’s not wonder that so many of these films tend to all look alike at film festivals—usually non-acting, long takes, severity, sparse use of music and sound. This is New than new—a brand. Also, it would be nice if Rosenbaum embraced the new in film criticism as much as he pretends to in film. He’s been rehashing the same aesthetic and political points over and over. Still, he’s still more interesting than 99% of critics out there.

Jonathan Rosenbaum says he doesn’t like the psycho-killer genre. I agree. They are usually sensationalistic and gory. The subject is disturbing but the treatment is almost always trashy. Silence of the Lambs is a prime example—well made in every department but trashy in every way. There are only a few exceptions to the rule: From the Life of Marionettes by Bergman and Vengeance is Mine by Imamura. And, in a way, High and Low by Kurosawa though the prime emphasis is on law-and-order. Otherwise, with the exception of Psycho, most psycho-killer movies are morally offensive. Still, I wonder why sensitive Rosenbaum likes other kinds of horror films which are gorier? Is it because Psycho-killer films tap into the ‘conservative’ soul while, say, flesh eating zombie films are leftwing allegories about capitalism?

Rosenbaum wonders why people really dug Hannibal Lecter. This is an interesting question. Was it because Lecter is a psycho-killer? Or, was it because he is superhuman? Are they one and the same? In Silence of the Lambs, there are two psycho-killers. There is Lecter and the man Lecter helps Clarice capture/destroy. We don’t feel any love for the homosexual psycho-killer, so the audience was not primarily admiring of a mad killer. We wanted Clarice to stop his murders. But, why then did we love Lecter—personally, I didn’t. It’s because there is a Nietzschean in all of us. Most of us are normal people bound by normal morality. But, we often admire the man who’s great enough to go beyond limits of normal conscience. This was the theme of Crime and Punishment, and it is the practice of Silence of the Lambs. Because Lecter is so superior to us, it makes question the meaning of ‘psycho-killer’ After all, if lambs could think, they’d see us as murderers. But, we don’t think eating lambs is immoral or murderous. We are superior to lambs—and cows and pigs—so we don’t feel bad about eating them. If indeed, the fictional Lecter has an IQ of 250 or higher, may he not be more evolved than we are? Wouldn’t he see us as we see lambs. From his angle, killing us for food is not immoral. It would be like a human killing a monkey for meat—prevalent around the world. In a way, this was the also the theme of Blade Runner. The replicants are superior to us. Batty even beats his maker Tyrell at chess. Their moral sense is different from ours. Batty is a sort of a psycho-killer, but one who Rosenbaum sympathizes with because Batty can be seen as a slave-rebel. But, there is an irony because Batty is cyb-organically our masters. If his kind take over the planet, we are sure to be their slaves.
The audience relishes tension and suspence, and Lecter provides it because he’s both evil and maybe beyond good & evil. He is the darker version of the Star Child in 2001. He is more like Dr. Strangelove. In entertainment(and religion), people like both the notion of a superior man loving and helping us—Jesus Christ, Star Child, Jedi Knights—the notion of a superior creature destroying and wiping us out—Satan, Terminator, etc.
What’s interesting about Lecter is he embodies both extremes. On the one hand, he’s a superior man who kills/eats us. But, he’s also the superior man who helps us stop an even worse killer. There is a similar appeal in the character of Yojimbo and the Man with No Name—cold-blooded killers who sometimes kill worse guys to help us. Or, consider the appeal of the Godfather I, II, and III. The Corleone family may be hoodlums, but they are not as bad as some of the other guys. Vito initially refuses to deal in drugs. Michael joins the side of good to fight evil guys in Godfather III. And, now there is the movie American Gangster by Ridley Scott where some black gangster is seen both as a ruthless hoodlum and a role model for black people. And the list goes on and on. Consider Godzilla started out as a bad guy but in sequels became the not-so-bad monster who fought and destroyed much worse monsters.
It’s interesting that Rosenbaum should mention the first Gulf War since Hussein’s reputation also changed in the West. During the Iran-Iraq war, he was the secular leader holding back the tide of Islamic Fundamentalism. If he wasn’t exactly a good guy, he was a useful not-so-bad guy. But, when he invaded Kuwait, he became worse than Hitler. And, it’s interesting that Hussein’s main role model was Stalin who similarly underwent transformation in the West. He was an evil communist; then he became Uncle Joe during WWII, and then an evil communist again during the Cold War.
Maybe our fascination with ambiguous powerful bad guys is due to our sense of weakness. Little in the world is totally good vs totally bad. Also, totally good is often powerless. So, often we have to rely on the powerful bad to counterbalance the even worse. The free world needed Stalin to defeat Hitler(of course, at one time, the Free World thought it needed Hitler to counterbalance the gtowing power of Stalinism).
The appeal of Hannibal Lecter, Yojimbo, Godzilla, and the Corleones fits into this mold. They are bad but they are powerful and awesome in a way. And it’s better to have them on our side if there are bigger dangers lurking. Sicilians knew that the Mafia are criminals, but in a corrupt world, it was better to be on good terms with YOUR mafia boss as protection from other mafia bosses or worse.

Rosenbaum says Americans love their mass murderers. Does he mean Americans like to watch movies about mass murderers or really like mass murderers? Big difference.
Also, what are we to deduce from audience preferences. Americans also love comedy, romance, and the like. So, are Americans schizo? I think Americans simply love fun movies. So does the rest of the world. I’ll bet this movie will do better in Europe than in the US. Are Europeans also in love with mass murderers? (by the way, there is a difference between a serial killer and a mass murderer. Hitler was a mass murderer. Gacy was a serial killer).
More importantly, isn’t Rosenbaum being a bit puritanical? Would it be better if American censors banned movies about psycho-killers or other disturbing subjects. Surely, the films of the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany were not as violent, sensationalistc, crass, extreme, and even outrageous as some of our movies. Yet, it was Nazi Germany that carried out the Holocaust. It was the Soviet Union that killed millions. The art of Nazi Germany and Soviet Union presented idyllic images of their nations and peoples. The reality was something very different. It’s funny but Rosenbaum’s review of this movie is rather like a long rant about the dangers of Degenerate Art.

This isn’t to imply that this movie—which I haven’t seen—is good for us. But, people are naturally drawn to extreme topics and subjects—in violence, beauty, humor, excitement and thrill—than to the usual humdrum. Fine artists can turn humdrum into poetry—think of Rohmer or Ozu. But, generally, we want murder, intrigue, madness, violence, etc.
Rashomon wouldn’t be fun without the murder. War movies are more fun than peace movies about soldiers hanging around the barracks with nothing to do. We like rock music because it’s loud. Also, we have this not-always-healthy attitude that Superior people must live by their own rules. Our rules don’t apply to them. This is why a lot of Rappers are revered as prophets. It doesn’t matter that they are thugs. They are poet-prophets of mayhem so everything is allowed. Or, consider all the destructive behavior—towards others and to themselves—of rock stars, movie actors, artists, jazz musicians, etc. By normal standards, people like Sam Peckinpah, Miles Davis, John Lennon, and Keith Richards were pretty awful people. But, we see them as god-poets of popular entertainment. We forgive all their trespasses. We even celebrate their trespasses as part and parcel of greatness. Would it make sense to denounce King Kong for stepping on a few cars—especially if they are not ours.

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Derek at 5:46 PM on 11/9/2007

It may seem kind of quaint, but I am a firm believer in "art for art's sake". I am less concerned with what the moral message in a movie may or may not be than I am with the craftsmanship that goes into the making of it. By most accounts I've read, this seems to be a very well-crafted film, and I'm looking forward to seeing it this weekend.

I would just like to add that I do appreciate Rosenbaum's thoughtful critique.

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DAL at 6:01 PM on 11/9/2007

War is also a "powerful and bracing experience" for some and has been around since before Sophocles. If you looked at the poster for this film accompanying Pat Graham's blog and didn't know what the film was about, it's not too difficult to see the outlines of a soldier against the background of -- what? The embodiment of Norman Podhoretz's Islamofascism?

At least JR is attempting to understand and analyze why people are going bananas over this film rather than making ad hominem comments that are in line with the the kind of cop-out his review is criticizing.

And that's not champagne, my friend; it's Kentucky straight bourbon.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:07 PM on 11/9/2007

Look, Rosenbaum isn't saying Coen brothers should be banned from moving making. And, critics of Rosenbaum aren't saying he shouldn't have the right to write whatever. They are simply disagreeing with Rosenbaum and stating their views.
We arrive at truth--whatever it may be--thru dialectics. Rosenbaum attacks Coens, and we attack Rosenbaum. Hopefully, Rosenbaum attacks us back. If Rosenbaum only agreed with the Coens and if we only agreed with Rosenbaum, there would be no point.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:08 PM on 11/9/2007

Is that Charlie Watts on the picture?

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CMS at 6:11 PM on 11/9/2007

The film remains loyal to the novel, and both works take pains to place the story's action in history, or rather within an historical vision of life as precarious and potentially violent, where killers such as Chigurh vainly identify themselves with an indifferent world playing at furies or persecutory fates, and others, such as the young wife insisting that we do have a choice about our actions. This is an old-fashioned morality tale. The reference to "dog-collars" and to 'all out war" are not contemporary references to Iraq but references to the fact that torture and war have persisted across history. This is the point of the scene between the Sheriff and his father, the "Old Men" of the title. Such a brilliant masterpiece of moral vision, confronting us with the stakes of this life, perhaps blinds those whose narrow focus beads in upon current events and judges merely according to ideological fashion or (the same thing) aesthetic taste. A better quote than Orwell comes from Cormac McCarthy's own meditation on walls, THE STONEMASON, in which laying stones may be compared to the morality of the creative process "He says that to a man who's never laid a stone that there's nothing you can tell him. Even the truth would be wrong."

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binkieandmarcel at 6:22 PM on 11/9/2007

It's hard to miss the place where Rosenbaum's review ends and the comments begin. Readers who don't like the comments can therefore avoid them if they wish, as I certainly will do in future. Meanwhile, not having a life, and having already invested this much of my obviously undervalued free time, I can't just surf on without adding my bit of ego to the general spleen, hypocrite lecteur that I am. As I said, I disagree with those who would suppress the comments section because they don't want to read it; no reason to deprive everybody else of their fun because you lack self-control. However, if Jonathan Rosenbaum is required as part of his job to read these comments, then I vote to get rid of them. I can't believe he's paid enough to put up with lazy argument (his review is all "ideology," it has no "philosophy") and petty attempts to wound him ("Same old Rosenbaum," "kinda sad"). Unlike the rest of us, he really does have more important things to do.

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CMS at 6:24 PM on 11/9/2007

The scene with the grandmother certainly recalled for me O'Connor's "Misfits," but something I had not fully appreciated from reading the novel was that the wife probably spent all of the money by the time Chigurh arrives because she had to pay all of her mother's medical bills. Chigurh might be more dangerous than "bubonic plague" but cancer gets the $2 million. Also, perhaps Chigurh's haircut recalls that other great monster of cinema Olivier's Richard III.

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reebie at 6:34 PM on 11/9/2007

In a big town like Chicago, why can't we get a decent film critic who understands what a film critic's role is? Is the movie well-acted, casted, directed, how is the cinematography, editing, screenplay, etc? To blather on about your views on the morals of American filmgoers, serial killers, etc. whilst trying to impress with your lit namedropping is a the job of a self serving bore. I don't really get anything about the level of the craft in the film here - just the level of your own conceit.
I am glad readers can respond to this crap. It is the only honest part of this review section.
What a bunch of miserable excuses for newspapers we have in this town!

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scooby at 6:43 PM on 11/9/2007

This isn't a review, it's a term paper. Does the reader have an "editor" ? Some one what who actually "edits"? JR is out of control. Just get to the movie.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:49 PM on 11/9/2007

Reebie, I know what you mean. But, thera are too many critics like that in Chicago whose main purpose is to tell us if the movie is well-made and worth seeing over the weekend.
Roger Ebert is that kind of critic. So is Wilmington and the other guy.
The problem with Rosenbaum isn't his different angle. It's his personality which is all too self-righteous and contemptuous.

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ligeti42 at 12:18 AM on 11/10/2007

I say GOOD that JR raises questions, doesn't feed us the standard line, gives us his heterodox views backed by a life devoted to understanding film and its cultural context. JR has long since earned his place as a film critic, and a damn fine one at that -- if that makes you hyperventilate, GOOD.

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Johnny at 1:44 AM on 11/10/2007

I always loved the Roadrunner cartoons. Wiley Coyote was killed in so many clever ways that movies today are trying to duplicate. Murder was the premise of the Roadrunner cartoons and the start of outstandingly clever ways to accomplish senseless murder. This movie is a remake of the Roadrunner cartoons only using fictional cartoon-like human beings.

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tem at 1:54 AM on 11/10/2007

to say that Ebert is a critic whose "main purpose is to tell us if the movie is well made and worth seeing over the weekend" is as ridiculous as MF's "look at me !" attention-whoring essay. And Wilmington doesn't even have a job anymore.

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Jonathan at 4:24 AM on 11/10/2007

"If you looked at the poster for this film accompanying Pat Graham's blog and didn't know what the film was about, it's not too difficult to see the outlines of a soldier against the background of -- what? The embodiment of Norman Podhoretz's Islamofascism?"

Oh my lord.

I'm reminded of Steve Almond's recent attack on Gawker. They'd made fun of him, so he called them right wing on the Huffington Post. This is how liberals in the arts deal with so much of the world. But guess what: Accusing everything you dislike of being covertly right wing is an excellent way of avoiding the introspection and analysis that would reveal why you really dislike it. It's an excellent way of being pathetically dishonest.

Rosenbaum is the Michael Medved of the left. Nothing more. And his fans seem to be the cinematic ditto-heads of the left.

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Jon C. at 2:19 PM on 11/10/2007

Jonathan: Thanks for informing me that, as an admirer of JR’s work, I'm not just any cinematic ditto-head, but a ditto-head "of the left"—surely the worst kind. I'd appreciate it, however, if you directed your umbrage at my previous post, which nobody else has taken issue with, and which happens to concern the aesthetics you find so sorely lacking in JR's review. (They’re there.) His is a demanding piece, and some of us would like to use this space to generate a thoughtful discussion free of name-calling and sighs of superior wisdom – whether or not we think JR succumbs as well.

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gem2 at 4:13 PM on 11/10/2007

i cannot understand the impassioned outrage at Rosenbaum's right to express an opinion about a movie. his reviews spark debate and dialogue. if you want a simple consumer critic, a Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down-type of review, then read the hundreds of other flacks out there who hawk studio products. Rosenbaum takes films seriously, apparently too seriously for the anti-intellectuals out there.

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DAL at 4:16 PM on 11/10/2007

To Jonathan (not Rosenbaum): Irony and rational argument don't seem to do as much for you as name-calling (one prominent generic convention of the blathersphere), but here's an additional effort to spell some things out:

1. One thing JR is doing in his review is attempting to analyze how audience responses to this film may relate to the war in Iraq. Clearly, a number of commenters on this post have problems with that, for a variety of reasons (e.g., they expect a simple 'thumbs up/thumbs down' response from a movie critic, they think works of art transcend politics, they don't like JR's politics, or they seem to bear some kind of personal grudge against JR himself).

If you can name one critic in this country outside of academia, whether from the left, right, center or any other political position, engaging in this kind of analysis, please let me know. In my opinion, we could use more intelligent and intelligble, non-jargon-laden discussion of movies to help keep us honest and introspective (two things you claim to value).

2. You can look at the poster for this movie and see any number of things -- Darth Vader, Charlie Watts or -- since the Coen Brothers are involved -- Mickey Mouse. The unspoken point is that mass-market movies like this one are designed to appeal to people of diverse backgrounds and are bound to have multiple and contradictory meanings, depending on who the audience is.

My point is that JR's choice of the war in Iraq as one topic for discussion is a valid one. Is it or should it be the ONLY one? Of course not; other commenters have made some insightful observations about other aspects of this film and the novel it is based on, as does JR himself in his review.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:11 PM on 11/10/2007

Hey Gem, nobody is disputing Rosenbaum's RIGHT to express his views. The fact is that Rosenbaums' views tend to be aggressive, mean-spirited, and judgmental. So, people are replying in kind. Rosenbaum loves to bitchslap moviemakers and us dummies who 'love mass murderers'.
If Rosenbaum has integrity, he surely appreciates those who confront him in a like manner than those who sheepishly agree with everything he's says. Of course, he could be a radical--an ideologue without any integrity and without any tolerance of views different than his own.

I have nothing against Rosenbaum's dissenting or oppositional views. The problem is he's been pulling the same Schtick for over 30 yrs--finding something distateful in American movies and identifying it as the symptoms of OUR sickness. WE americans are sick. WE are morons. WE elect mass murderers like Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and Bush. I suppose we should be led by Chomsky and Michael Moore instead.

Also, Rosenbaum falls short as a critic because he's unable to look squarely at himself or to examine/question his own certitudes and beliefs.
He never evolves or grows because of his inflated sense of self-importance. Never mind that the political leaders that Rosenbaum has supported were much greater mass murderers and oppressors than American presidents. Never mind that his beloved Revolutionary Masses committed far more mass killings than you or me. None of that impresses Rosenbaum. He's right because he's right.

Perhaps, Rosenbaum hates the latest Coen movie because its ugliness reflects not OUR ugliness but his own. Rosenbaum supported and apologized for regimes that really carried out mass murders in the tens of millions. Yet, he's completely blind to HIS OWN history. We may like 'mass murderers' on the screen, but Rosenbaum likes them in politics--as long as the mass murders are in the name of radical progress.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:23 PM on 11/10/2007

Hey Dal, you say Rosenbaum's discussion of the Iraq War is a valid one. Well, maybe it's interesting but isn't it something of a stretch--as when Rosenbaum fumed about American imperialism when reviewing Pretty Woman?!?

The more important question is did the Coens have Bush and Iraq War in mind? If so, I guess you're right. But, Rosenbaum all too arbitrarily uses movie reviewing as an excuse to write political columns or editorials. I mean much of his review has NOTHING to do with the movie. He's merely using the movie as a pretext to insult Americans. Indeed, his review of this movie could have been about any other violent American movie. Just take out NO COUNTRY FOR OLD MEN from the review and replace it with Terminator, Carlito's Way, or whatever.
Rosenbaum's attitude is that he's too good to review THIS kind of movie so he won't even bother. Instead, he will use the movie as a platform to score polemical points.

Also, would you defend Michael Medved if he reviewed this movie in a similar manner--where he tried to equate our love of serial killers with liberal moral relativism, leftwing enchantment with communist dictatorships, and the like? I think you would call Medved a hysterical, delirious, tiresome, self-rightous prick.

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Jonathan at 5:51 PM on 11/10/2007

You're right, Jon C. Rosenbaum alludes to the film's aesthetic value. And he makes it clear that he doesn't much care. I think he made that point clearly; I think I made that point clearly; I think everyone here expressing distaste for the review agrees that he made it clearly. It's exactly what puts us off. And we think his attaching his discomfort with the film to the foreign policy debacle of the moment is both desperate and, for him, painfully predictable.

Did I call someone names? I wrote "ditto heads" because I'm bothered by leftists who are as uniform and philistine as their right wing counterparts, but who believe that being of the left immunizes them from either of those criticisms.

I'm sorry I didn't address certain amazing points that you say you made in your own earlier post--the one you imply we're all fearfully avoiding. I'll read it a few more times. I'm sure they're in there somewhere.

The issue with those of you attacking the attacks on the review seems to be that you can't accept that some of us followed his piece perfectly, and yet we don't find it in the least "demanding." We feel we've read it, from him, a thousand times. It's not us who are being condescending, as I see it. But to be condescending myself for a moment, I do suspect I've been reading JR longer than you have. I was there when he was on about globalization every week for two years. I was there when he was doing his part to advance tired buzzwords like "subversive" and "transgressive." I'll say it again: he's the Michael Medved of the left. No humor, no independence, no stylistic flair whatsoever. He's brighter than 99% of film critics, but it's been a long time since that was saying much.

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gem2 at 6:00 PM on 11/10/2007

hey Movicus whatever,

talk about being "hysterical, delirious, tiresome and self-righteous." just read the miles and miles of your posting, hyperventilating over Rosenbaum's politics.

a question; what's wrong with reviewing a film within the cultural context it was made? wouldn't it be fair to discuss, say, HIGH NOON, within the historical context of the McCarthy witchhunts and the Hollywood blacklists and the filmmakers own role in it?

another question: what's wrong with having a political point of view?

as far as your silly comparison to Michael Medved, he's a partisan hack. he's spoken for conservative organizations, attended dinners with Bush and works for right-wing causes. Rosenbaum speaks for himself. he's also quite open about his prejudices; just read his favorable review of MONSTER'S BALL, a stupid liberal/racist movie as far as i'm concerned.

your hatred of Rosenbaum is indeed personal. some teacher must have called you stupid of something, but please, for the sake of those who love and enjoy discussing film, take your baggage to a therapist.

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Julian at 6:47 PM on 11/10/2007

Mr Rosenbaum
I've always found the Coen brothers' films preposterous and smug, but I don't understand at all your objection to OLD MEN, that you can't see what "use" their putting all their "creativity and craft" to. When was it that films became---in any sense at all---useful?

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gem2 at 8:44 PM on 11/10/2007

a clarification (if anyone's even reading or cares): in my last post, i commended Rosenbaum for being "open about his prejudices" and sited his favorable review of MONSTER'S BALL, which i called "liberal and racist." i didn't mean to imply that Rosenbaum's prejudices are racist, far from it, but rather that his bias is for feel-good liberal movies, like the one MONSTER'S BALL purports to be. i just disagree with him, for what its worth.

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Angelo at 9:16 PM on 11/10/2007

Wow. What a bunch of haters.

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velda_mac at 9:45 PM on 11/10/2007

Maybe all the "haters" are just responding honestly to something valid that bothers them about this man's work. Unless Jonathan knows Rosie personally his comments can't be regarded as personal and I thought his comments were fair and do not sound hateful. Rather, I think there is something off-putting about Rosie's stance and that's what people are responding to. Defending his right to free speech and and turning this into a partisan argument (or getting "personal") does not address the problem that people have with him (which has clearly been stated many times by the detractors) but just recasts their arguments in a different light.

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j. at 11:06 PM on 11/10/2007

ALL VAIN DRIVEL!

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Danyul at 12:44 AM on 11/11/2007

Perhaps Mr. Rosenbaum should review the film or at least comment on the film's contents, especially, oh say, the last 20 minutes. It's a rare serial killer, crime, drug film that doesn't have a final a shoot-out. Instead, the film ends with a pondering: where are we headed. As you said... " As I left the screening in Toronto, all I could think was, "America sure loves its mass murderers."" And that's the point spot on. We are being consumed by murderers, and Anton Chigruh stands for that. He walks away and Ed Tom is in over his head. We've never seen anything like what's about to come. Why not commend the film for how it plays with genre instead of just talking about the failings of the crime genre?

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T.D. at 9:17 AM on 11/11/2007

DAL asked, "If you can name one critic in this country outside of academia, whether from the left, right, center or any other political position, engaging in this kind of analysis, please let me know."

Well, here is David Walsh on Kill Bill 2, with more principle, insight and clarity than Mr. Rosenbaum has been able to muster in some time:

Every social act has social consequences. Cinema is perhaps the most social of all the arts, by virtue both of the collective, cooperative nature of making films and the mass character of their distribution and exhibition. A film is an aggressive intrusion into the lives and thoughts of those who see it and therefore a factor in social life.

Every work in the cinema is ‘political’ and ‘polemical,’ i.e., it proposes a certain view of humanity—of its aspirations, its possibilities, its current social organization—and at the same time argues against others. An individual film may uncover or conceal important truths; it may demystify social reality or obscure it; it may encourage or help paralyze the viewer, enlighten or help disorient him or her.

And later:

Revenge as a central motif; the loose use of words like "kill"; approving references to sadism and torture—where could we be but in post-September 11 America, where bloody-mindedness has apparently become the stuff of polite dinner parties in Washington, New York and elsewhere? Tarantino thinks he’s behind the steering wheel, but every aspect of his work suggests that he’s being driven by powerful social forces.

The decayed state of American society is not the filmmaker’s fault. One senses that the disintegration of old institutions, the loosening of traditional affiliations, the economic dislocations, the violence and chaos of American life ... that all this sends Tarantino (and not only him) into a tizzy. The task of the artist, however, is to do something other than merely register these facts, much less "be playful" with them.

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Jon C. at 11:18 AM on 11/11/2007

Jonathan: I don't recall saying my points were "amazing" or that anyone was "fearfully avoiding them," only that "nobody has taken issue with them," which leads me to assume they're not totally off base. That doesn't mean they aren’t dull.

Saying you’re a longtime reader isn’t condescending, but goes a long way toward justifying your convictions. (I’ve been reading Rosenbaum’s work for about five years, as long as I've taken film seriously as an art form.) Still, I have a hard time imagining any writer grinding the anti-globalization ax for 100 weeks straight. And I don't think JR's politics emblemize an endlessly self-justifying and self-righteous ideology, leftist or not. You need to better justify the Medved analogy. How does someone who no longer writes reviews nor shows much interest in international cinema deserve comparison to a prolific writer and consistent champion of world film? And what on earth do you mean by "no independence"? From a personal ideology?

If you find him discordant, that’s one thing. The pejorative use of "hip" and such statements as "the waves of love that went out to Lecter…were a mix of giggly fascination, twisted affection, and outright awe for his absolute lack of remorse" leave a sour taste in my mouth. They evoke an Armond White screed. But both JR and White are interested in locating films within larger ideological currents. The heart of Medved’s reviews is merely whether a movie is worth your Saturday afternoon. Only the first approach asks readers to contemplate the medium.

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Casey Campbell at 1:35 PM on 11/11/2007

Talk about missing the point.

Hannibal Lecter is a cartoon character and I never understood his popularity.

No Country For Old Men shouldn't be compared to such silliness.

There's a lot more going on in the movie than the reviewer cared to see or mention. Or maybe he was too busy trying to analyze the audience's reaction to the movie and instead reviewed that in an attempt of elevating his own self worth?

He didn't review the movie, though. He makes allusions to how he read the novel and doesn't compare the two, and if he did he'd find the movie comes out looking quite strong as adaptations go. He didn't speak about any of the themes, such as the futility of everything and how the Sheriff felt at the end.

It's an incredibly engaging and great movie. There's a lot to digest about it. You're not supposed to think the killer is cool, he's supposed to make you feel dread (and what else could you feel in the scene with the gas station attendent?).

He missed the point. Everyone else seems to have missed the point and now people are getting into another political pissing contest. Awesome.

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DAL at 2:34 PM on 11/11/2007

To T.D.: I should have qualified my earlier point along the lines of "another critic in this country writing for a general audience in a mass-market publication" (or whatever an accurate description of the Reader and its readers might be).

Walsh writes intelligently and clearly but also comes across as prescriptive and somewhat doctrinaire. JR, by contrast, openly and deliberately adopts a first-person voice in his writing which, since he has an interesting and rather unique personal history with movies, makes such an approach worthwhile, even if it risks the kind of reactions found in this blog.

The broader point I was trying to make is that if we had anything approaching a genuine film culture in this country, writers like Walsh and JR (as well as critics from other political/aesthetic/etc. perspectives) would be the rule rather than the exception.

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Movicus Fanisius at 4:27 PM on 11/11/2007

There is nothing wrong with Rosenbaum having political views. Everyone has them. But, he is as much a partisan ideologue as Michael Medved. The only difference is the film community is dominated by his kind so he's among friends.
Also, there is the cult of boldness and new thinking in radicalism when, in fact, today's radicalism in art is stifling, bogus, dogmatic, politically correct, predictable, repetitive, and by-the-numbers. 'Radical' is as much a marketable brand name as any other. Sure, the veneer will continue to have its appeal for the dogmatic, the naive, and the pompous--and the wealthy who wanna play at being bohemians.

Of course, if the film community were dominated by the likes of Medved, it wouldn't be any better.
Anyway, Rosenbaum doesn't speak for himself. Everything he says is something he's picked up from Left Bank cafes in Paris--40 yrs ago!!. It goes by the name of 'progressive' but it's old-hat-60s-radicalism which has been totally discredited. Even Vietnam--the Marxist hope--is turning capitalist, pro-market, and pro-American. So much for the promise of radical socialism. The future belongs to welfare capitalism and social-democraticism--both 'bourgeois' systems. It certainly doesn't belong to Marxism and the like. Now, Rosenbaum is not a communist, but he's a spiritual Marxist. He has a need for Old Time religion and so falls back on radical flagwaving and Hallelujahs.

The important thing is a critic must not put ideology before philosophy. Just as a christian mustn't let his religion get in the way of his secular profession, a critic should be wary of his hardline ideology. Of course, we all have them. But, art is about exploration and examination. So is criticism. This is why an artist will often try to empathize with and understand other people, values, cultures, and positions he disagrees with or even loathes. He must try to understand before he condemns. (This is why Ron Rosenbaum's EXPLAINING HITLER is a great book. Ron at least tries to understand the monster. Understanding is not the same as endorsing). Ideology often prevents us from understanding. It makes us feel secure morally, which is why we often rely on them. After all, many of us would prefer NOT to understand why an 'evil' person--or the enemy-- does what he does. We would rather just condemn his 'evil'. But, many people who are 'evil' or wrong--in our eyes--have their own sense of right and wrong, rage and justice. This is why Batty of Blade Runner is both a villain and a hero. With that movie, Rosenbaum was in the philosophical mode. But, too often, it's as though Rosenbaum is afraid to understand the Other Side, especially if that Other Side is American or pro-American(rather absurd in review of a Coen Brothers movie. Coens are arch-liberals! And, for all we know, they may have made this movie as a harsh critique of America). So, Rosenbaum sticks to the ideological mode.

The reason why Hoberman is a superior critic to Rosenbaum is Hoberman is more philosophical than ideological in his criticism. Hoberman is ideologically identical with Rosenbaum. They both belong to the Left. But, Hoberman tries to understand the other side, weigh matters, understand varying opinions and realities. This is why Dream Life is a wonderful read. Hoberman suprises us--and probably himself--, whereas Rosenbaum is a broken record repeating the same diatribes over and over.
Dave Kehr is also superior to Rosenbaum for this reason. Kehr, a liberal, can see the idiocy of both right and left. Rosenbaum, with a personality of a 5 yr old who doesn't wanna share candy, only cares for his reality, his views, his prejudices. Now, everyone has prejudices. The role of a critic is to try--at least try--to go beyond his own. Otherwise, ANYONE can be a film critic. All he needs to do is to declare his prejudices and praise/condemn movies on their ideological or political utility.

At this point, Microsoft oughta come up with a software called Rosenbaumics. For every new movie, let the Software 'write' the reviews. I get a feeling that Rosenbaum is sick of cinema, sick of America, sick of the world, sick of humanity. We are all idiots who love mass murderers in arts and politics. Now, the world is a pretty rotten place, but the tiresome jeremiad of Rosenbaum makes it worse--though it's good for laughs. Besides, some of the Cult Films that he prefers are immeasurably worse than what he usually condemns. Check his film canon. I think mentions only one Kurosawa and Bergman while including stuff like Hardly Working by Jerry Lewis. Americans may love mass murderers but Rosenbaum obviously loves mega-morons.
The problem with Rosenbaum is ultimately his personality. He's like that guy in the documentary "I Like Killing Flies". A memoir by Rosenbaum could be called "I Like Killing Films".

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Movicus Fanisius at 4:36 PM on 11/11/2007

The appeal of Hannibal Lecter is perhaps predictable. It's the same kind of fascination that we have with Dracula. In an age of populism, egalitarianism, mass culture, and the like, the aristocratic figure or ideal has its allure.
This is probably why there has been a Jane Austen revival as well. We want our Adam Sandler movies and the Bigass Buckets of popcorn. But, we also want some class. It doesn't matter that Austen satirized aristocratic folk. It just feels good to among people with poise and manners.

Most slashers are just gory killers. They scare us but don't do much for the imagination. Lecter, on the other hand, has table manners when he kills and eats us.
Maybe, the appeal of American Gangster is similar. This is no orindary black gangster thug. He has style and manners, and as such, may teach today's thugs a lesson or two. If you're gonna be a thug, at least don't make a nuisance of yourself in public. And be more selective in who and what you kill. Don't me a slob.

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gem2 at 5:59 PM on 11/11/2007

Movicus Fanisius,

i stand corrected. i blindly dismissed your rants as childish, but it's obvious you're well-read and quite impassioned about film. my favorite critics are also Dave Kehr, Hoberman AND Rosenbaum, for all the reasons you hate him. if you continue to read him, shout and stammer about his opinions (you've written six times more than the actual review you're addressing), it's obvious his reviews have a fundamental value for you.

i still don't know what his politics are so bothersome to you and i think you're a little more than disengenous with comparing him to Michael Medved. do you actually read him? for shits & giggles, i listen to his radio show and PUH-LEASE, Rosenbaum is no party shill.

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Brian at 1:00 AM on 11/12/2007

Why are people accusing this review of being an example of party politics? Rosenbaum may be a liberal but this isn't an example of him attacking Republicans. Movicus Fanisius points it out himself, the Cohen brothers' are liberals. Most of the movie critics praising this movie on RottenTomatoes are liberals. This isn't an example of the left vs. the right, like Fahrenheit 911. Instead this review is about Rosenbaum's moral view of how violence is portrayed on film. That's the issue you have to deal with. Notice how everyone who is attacking Rosenbaum is avoiding this moral issue and instead just calls him partisan. He certainly does not hide his political feelings and lets those feelings influence how he views movies (which I like). But this is not a case of that political influence. When he brings up Abu Ghraib, it isn't a non-sequetor which could fit in any other review of a violent movie(as people accuse him of). Instead it is the film that made such an allusion; Rosenbaum is just turning that reference against the movie to offer a real world example of atrocity and then point out the film's lack of moral depth, which makes it incapable of responsibly handling such issues.

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d at 4:10 PM on 11/12/2007

Sucky comments. I'll go see the movie.

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Spillane at 6:01 PM on 11/12/2007

I have to say that while I love Jonathan's writing I find that I love David Bordwell's work partly because it is completely unlike Jonathan's. While JR is well-read and insightful he has this tendency to make bold assertions that are not backed up by anything substantial. I find that at his worst he avoids formalism altogether in favour of making a Abe Simpson-type rant (in this case we have basically a recycling of his Fargo review). There are too many loose ends here - Jonathan generalizes about America and its fascination about serial killers, but never bothers to distinguish between filmic approaches about these psycho killers. He just throws everything into a pot, stirs and makes premature conclusions. The Orwell quote is uncalled for - it is so boldly insulting in this context. Jonathan - we love you, but please don't forget to be a bit more grounded, even if you are an old dog.

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Adam at 7:14 PM on 11/12/2007

Rosenbaum is a critic who holds grudges. He's been very negative toward the Coen brothers from the get-go, as soon as they portrayed southerners derisively in Blood Simple. As a native southerner, he was obviously personally offended and the offense hasn't lessened any with the Coen brothers' subsequent films. I'm not saying that this feeling has been unwarranted, but I believe it's affected his overall judgement of the Coen brothers' films in more ways and to a greater degree than it should.

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auto_matt_ic at 12:14 AM on 11/13/2007

Although I'm generally in favor of reader responses, these generally seem to be written by insipid muddleheads. I think Mr. J.Ro should turn off comments to keep amateur hacks from spending their afternoons taking anonymous pot-shots. He didn't like this movie, it's probably going to be over-rated by the rest of the world (the Coens are grossly over-rated to begin with), go see it and make your own decision.

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Phartologist at 12:48 AM on 11/13/2007

With reviews such as this and the elicited comments (sadly, published here), we now know why the Reader costs what it does.

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Adam at 6:04 AM on 11/13/2007

auto_matt_ic and others who are complaining about these comments - yes, the nasty tone of many of them is unfortunate, and some of them ARE written by "insipid muddleheads"/"amateur hacks"; however, there are other comments here worth reading. You have to pick the flyshit from the pepper.

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Buster at 10:02 AM on 11/13/2007

Hey Rosenbaum, All of the comparisons to the Iraq war and Abu Graihb are totally contrived. About 95% percent of the dialogue is directly out of the book, and has nothing to do with The war.
douche

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Movicus Fanisius at 9:26 PM on 11/13/2007

My theory as to why Rosenbaum can't stand the Coens...
I think it's essentially a generational thing. Just as the generation prior to Rosenbaum's disdained the new sensibility mixing high brow & low brow and championed Hollywood movies as works of art, I think Rosenbaum and many like him disdain the Film School generation that came afterwards who took the elements from old movies--sacred to Rosenbaum as a kid/young man--and cleverly recycled them into cinemaniac circuses.
Even in our demotic age, we tend to respect those with elder status. Rosenbaum may see Coens as clever upstart schtickmeisters, but those in their teens today could very well see the Coens as established master elders with a distinguished body of work. Rosenbaum's primary point of reference is the 50s and 60s. For cinephiles youth today, 80s is a mysterious ancient period. Point of reference is important, which is why older critics like Kael, Kauffmann, and others didn't much care for Hitchcock or Welles of the 50s. They preferred the earlier works of Hitch and Welles--seen when they were young.
So, Rosenbaum, who's seen perhaps 10,000s of movies and waxes about the wonderful movie culture of the 50s/60s, doesn't see anything new in the Coens. He sees only cleverly recycled stuff from movies he truly holds dear. But, then older critics may feel the same about movies Rosenbaum holds dear.
Anyway, it seems generally true that most newer directors--those who rose to prominence since the mid 80s--lack certain qualities of earlier directors; a lack of genuine seriousness and unique personality. For all of Godard's clowining around, he wanted to say something serious about movies and the world. You don't get that sense from the Coens, Wes Anderson, Quentin Tarantino, etc.
Their movies--even when terrifically well made--say one thing--"I've seen A LOT of movies". Tarantino's cinema is a game of scrabble criss-crossing styles of old masters. Maybe Oliver Stone is a more serious director but his style is essentially indistinguishable from tabloid tv news shows like Current Affair and Hard Copy.
This is perhaps why Rosenbaum prefers quiet Art Films from abroad. He wants to hide from the loud and boorish movie culture aimed at cleverites and boors--today's youths--in a cinema as retirement home.

As for the Coens... they know all the tricks but take away the tricks and what do you have? Not much. Sure, they've made Serious movies too, like Fargo and Man Who Wasn't There. But, they are not seriously serious but Serious-in-Style. Everything feels a bit smug.
This is why O Brother Where Art Thou and Barton Fink are their best movies. If Blood Simple and Raising Arizona are nothing but style and if Miller's Crossing and Fargo are sham serious movies--tonal than substantive--O Brother is lots of fun with some genuinely raucous to sublime musical numbers thrown into the mix. Maybe O Brother worked because Coens drew as much if not more from musical sources than merely from movie sources; at any rate, it is more than Film School clowning. But, then think of movies like Big Lebowski--the equivalent of sucking helium out of a good year blimp and making funny vocals for hrs on end.
Coens.. I don't like them.
----

As for Rosenbaum-bashers vs Rosenbaum-philes, it's like the movie School of Rock. We are supposed to give the middle finger to the Man. In this case, the Man is Rosenbaum. So, we are obliged to rebel and act up a bit. Teacher's pets never get any respect. Or, if we use Star Wars as an analogy, Rosenbaum is the Emperor and his fans are his Storm Trooping minions. It's the rebel alliance that stands for freedom.
Read Rosenbaum you will. Bitch and whine you must.

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David Ehrenstein at 2:59 PM on 11/14/2007

"I have nothing against Rosenbaum's dissenting or oppositional views."

Of course you do. And you're a lying scumbag for claiming otherwise.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:48 PM on 11/14/2007

You're right. My bad. The way I phrased it does make me a lying scumbag cockroach mofo rat skunk pile of manure.

Of course, I oppose and disagree with Rosenbaum's views. But, I support HIS RIGHT to express his views.

So, I say Rosenbaum has every RIGHT to be nuts AND that he is indeed NUTS.

So, now I've redeemed myself from a LYING scumbag--unintentional--to an honest scumbag.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:27 PM on 11/14/2007

Adam, you say Rosenbaum holds grudges against the Coens because of their negative portrayal of the South. This is rather odd when Rosenbaum is harsh on many aspects of the South himself--especially on them Christian Conservatives and Rednecks.
Maybe, it's like what John Lennon said--HE has the right to shit on the Beatles but no one else; he bitchslapped Mick Jagger for daring to do just that. Similarly, many people who express hatred for their parents or siblings get all defensive and angry if someone ELSE says the same. "My mother is a bitch". "Okay, you're mother is a bitch." "WHAT????!!!!"

But, I don't think the Coens were ever anti-South, any more than they were anti-Minnesotan. There's much affection for those localities and folks in their movies though much of it is, more or less, a variation of old or new stereotypes.
But, even this may piss off Rosenbaum. He may object to the caricaturization of the South instead of presenting Southerners are Real People. But, this accusation could be leveled at ANY Hollywood movie. A German may find most Hollywood movies about Germans ridiculous. Same with the French. I'm sure Asians would find the Asian-themed movies of Sam Fuller utterly laughable. And, blacks have often griped about how white Hollywood has misrepresented them in either an utterly negative or all-too-positive light. And, I'm sure Arabs and Muslims are cracking up or fuming--or both--about Hollywood or American depiction of their world.

So, if the Coens are guilty, so is everyone else. And, it's not just localities. It's also regarding professions and religions. Christians often gripe about Hollywood misrepresentation of Christians. Lawyers and doctors are, at best, amused by Hollywood misrepresentation--either bogus idealization or conspiracy-laden vilification--of their professions. Hollywood even misrepresents the nature of filmmaking. I didn't believe a single minute of The Player. And, many country music folks thought Nashville was pure fiction--also an insult as Altman told his actors to write their own songs(as though country music is soooo dumb, anyone can do it--which may be true, btw). And, Vietnamese are furious about almost all Hollywood Vietnam War movies--even anti-war movies--because the main focus is on Americans and Vietnamese are merely backdrop--as villains or helpless faceless victims.
Yet, Rosenbaum gave Apocalyse Now 3 stars while giving O Brother a zero.
I think Rosenbaum has a love/hate relationship with the South. On the one hand, The South is mostly Red State Red Neck KKK hellhole. On the other hand, it is the misrepresented and much maligned part of America in the media. Partly, he's with the liberal media in bashing red necks in the South. On the other, he feels all them city boys up north and in trendy West don't really understand why folks down south have 100 different recipes for catfish.
Rosenbaum loves to play the oppositional card,and being a southerner AND a radical gives him extra leeway. As a leftist, he opposes what the South stands for. As a former southerner, he opposes what glib liberals make of the South; he's better than the Southerners AND those who crap on the Southerners. Why, he's in hog heaven.
So, just visualize Rosenbaum with a radical text in one hand while other is holding fishing rod over a muddy pond next to his friend Lyle. He's not so much the child of Marx and Coca Cola as one of Marx and Fried Chicken. "Now, why dont you workin' boys cum together? Aint nothin to lose but some lard off yer ass."

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ligeti42 at 11:48 PM on 11/14/2007

Talk about blogorrhea. Movicus, please use your own blog if you must foam at the mouth about JR or any other critic you agree or disagree with. You've written more here than all the rest of us combined. Jesu Christe.

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flinch at 3:54 AM on 11/15/2007

As a McCarthey fan, I enjoyed the film for the following reasons: a. it stayed very close to the line and structure of the book, b. it used much of the dialogue from the book, c. it maintained the McCarthy sensibility and flavor, d. I loved the Coen brother's effect of unbalancing at least half the full audience with the ending of the film. If you want a treat, read Cormac's best work, Blood Meridian, also watch the "No Country"film a second time.

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David Ehrenstein at 9:19 AM on 11/15/2007

"So, now I've redeemed myself from a LYING scumbag--unintentional--to an honest scumbag."

IN YOUR DREAMS!

"So, just visualize Rosenbaum with a radical text in one hand while other is holding fishing rod over a muddy pond next to his friend Lyle."

You know nothing about Jonathan whatsoever. I'd advise tou to read his book "Moving Place"s but I'm sure you have "better things to do" with your oh-so-precious time.

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Zionist at 12:22 PM on 11/15/2007

Once again, Jonny boy attacks his own people in a review.

Jonny boy hates the Coens. He hates Spielberg. He hates Harvey and Bob Weinstein. Gee, folks--what do they have in common?

And get this--he loves an Islamofacsist Iranian filmmaker--an enemy of his religion and his country--who would love to do nothing better when seeing Jonny but kill him.

Why is Jonny boy a traitor to his religion? Can we hope that he will travel to Israel and get arrested, tried and hung for treason?

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Debra at 1:06 PM on 11/15/2007

The only thing that is more pathetic than all impassioned anti-Rosies is all the little boys who worship him like a god and can't tolerate any criticism of daddy. Wake up guys! Rosie is just another washed up out of touch 60s lefty who thinks he's god's gift because he gets a paycheck for giving his lame opinions. He's hardly worth all this silly debate!

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Jonathan Rosenbaum at 4:57 PM on 11/15/2007

Whew!

You guys should read one another to hear how you sound. The pretense at familiarity (thanks, David E.) takes my breath away.

To Mr. or Ms. Zionist: I love many, many Jews--including even Spielberg and Kubrick, especially when they made A.I.--but, sorry, no Islamofascists and no antisemites.

Even though I have no religion--just an ethnic background that I'm proud of (irrationally, because I didn't choose it)--I don't like haters of any stripe, and that includes all you creeps. But not liking isn't the same thing as hating. Sorry to disappoint you. I don't even hate the Coens, who have afforded me loads of entertainment and enjoyment, even in their latest film.

Yours very sincerely,

Just another washed up out of touch 60s lefty who thinks he's god's gift because he gets a paycheck for giving his lame opinions.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:55 PM on 11/15/2007

Is David Ehrenstein Rosenbaum's pit-bull? Rosenbaum is a big boy; he doesnt' need you as body guard nor as a running dog. Now, why don't you go play fetch.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:11 PM on 11/15/2007

Debra.. you don't get it. This is
supposed to be fun. Is it pathetic? Sure, just take a look any number of cinephiles. 99% of them are geeks and losers. A film critic is a loser who got lucky and spends his entire life watching and writing about movies for a living.

Anyway, cinephiles love mudwrestling too. Rosenbaum is ideal for this cuz he loves to provoke and piss us off for attention; he loves playing bad boy. I'm sure that he doesn't really rationally think "Americans love mass murderers" but he knows that such statement is gonna get a whole bunch of his readers riled up.
If Rosenbaum wrote saner and balanced reviews, we'd read him, nod or shake our head in mild agreement/disagreement.
It's like Jim Morrison pissing everyone off just to be center of attention. Rosenbaum wants to be the #1 bad boy critic in America. He's a self-promoter in the tradition of Mailer, Kael, Paglia, and Dworkin.
So, that's why We Americans Love Mass Murderers.

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:16 PM on 11/15/2007

If Rosenbaum 'loves' Spielberg and the Coens, what is 'hate' in his dictionary?

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Movicus Fanisius at 6:19 PM on 11/15/2007

Zionist...
Kiarostami is a humanist critical of the Iranian regime, not a Muslim radical tard. Fine artist too though his theories on film tend toward the dogmatic.

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a tired reader at 11:22 PM on 11/15/2007

Are Movicus Fanisius and Zionist the same person--the nut case who recently blogged that even a Gentile like Steven Soberbergh was a pathetic Marxist Jew in disguise? Maybe he just likes to have dialogues with himself. Or maybe Zionist is really a pit-bull for the Palestinians while the guy with a fake Latin name is a pit-bull for the Coens. If so, they should team up, start a multicultural pitbull club called Haters Anonymous, and either have the courage to use their real names or shut up---preferably both.

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a tired reader.about to call it quits at 11:31 PM on 11/15/2007

P.S. Rosenbaum didn't say he 'loved' the Coens, he said he didn't hate them. If that's 'reading' in this pseudonymous pit-bull's dictionary, what's 'writing'?

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Matt F. at 10:23 AM on 11/16/2007

One comment to Mr. Rosenbaum after reading through pages of somewhat hilarious back-and-forth:

You wrote that the Coens, "elide some of Chigurh’s actual murders toward the end, flattering the audience by suggesting they’re sophisticated enough to imagine the gorgeous carnage all by themselves."

This is not necessarily a choice that was made by the Coens, but rather, faithfulness to McCarthy's novel. At least one very important murder which takes place near the end of the novel/film is not "shown" in either.

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Brian H. at 10:24 AM on 11/16/2007

It's the best movie you've seen in a long time. Go see it now and judge for yourself!

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pola at 11:51 AM on 11/16/2007

wow, this reviewer is a fukcing idiot.

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J.D. at 12:28 PM on 11/16/2007

Whereas all these bloggers are fukcing geniuses. Thanks for the special insight, Pola. You have lots to teach us all.

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Movicus Fanisius at 5:46 PM on 11/16/2007

NO, I am not 'Zionist'. If you're a Reader editor, why don't you route the sources of both posts. Otherwise, no slander please.

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jwh at 5:51 PM on 11/16/2007

I had rice for dinner and, like your comments about this review, no one is going to care after about .5 seconds about anything you (or I) have written here. Looooosssseeerrrrsssss.

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a tired reader at 11:27 PM on 11/16/2007

MF: You still don't show much evidence of knowing how to read. I'm a tired reader, not a Reader editor. And why is my single supposition about you and Zionist as twin haters under the skin "slander" (as opposed to a taste of your own medicine) while your endless suppositions about Rosenbaum (radical text, fishing pole, muddy pond) are supposed to be some form of higher wisdom? Anyway, since you're hiding behind a pseudonym (like me and Zionist, but unlike Rosenbaum), what have you got to worry about? How does one slander a frightened shadow?

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David Ehrenstein at 8:34 AM on 11/17/2007

"Is David Ehrenstein Rosenbaum's pit-bull? Rosenbaum is a big boy; he doesnt' need you as body guard nor as a running dog. Now, why don't you go play fetch."

Now why don't you take the fucking gas pipe?

Jonathan has committed the unforgivable sin of being less than impressed with the Coen's latest. Fans of such art house pulp will doubtless be rewarded as the year closes out with this shallow monstrosity getting all sorts of awards.

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Jonathan Safran Rosenbore at 12:13 PM on 11/17/2007

Ehrenstein, so kind of you take time out of kissing Dennis Cooper's ass, on his blog, to come and kiss Rosenbaum's, too.

Get back to being professionally gay, now.

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Movicus at 3:55 PM on 11/17/2007

Mr. Tired Reader, I don't care if you see or out me as a hater of Jews or Israel or whatever, but the simple fact is I AM NOT "ZIONIST". You can call me a Nazi, a Islamofascist, hater, or lunatic, but don't accuse me of doubling as 'Zionist'. It's FACTUALLY wrong. And, if you do work for the Reader, I'm sure you can check the origins of the post from "Zionist". Not he am I.

-------

As for 'not knowing how to read', Rosenbaum wrote "...Coens... have afforded me loads of entertainment and enjoyment, even in their latest film." Sounds like LOVE to me. If I say someone or something afforded me 'loads of entertainment and enjoyment', aren't I implying that I have strong affection or liking for that thing?
Or, suppose I say, 'something made me sick to my stomach and made me vomit', aren't I implying that I hate or strongly dislike that thing--even if I don't use the word 'hate'? You're messing with semantics, therefore confused.

As for the issue of love or hate, it would be more honest for Rosenbaum to say that he hates certain movies, people, and ideas. Why not? Everyone has his loves and hates. Often, that which one loves leads to hate. Israelis love Israeli security and, as a result, hate Hamas. Hamas people love Palestinian freedom, and as a result, hate Israelis. If they didn't have strong loves, they wouldn't have strong hatreds. Politics and morality are not about love vs hatred, but about one kind of love/hatred vs another kind of love/hatred. Rosenbaum has his hatreds, so do you, so do I, so does everyone.

When Rosenbaum says "Americans love mass murderers", isn't he expressing hatred of Americans or at least of the American mentality?
No?
Suppose someone says "Jews love mass murderers". Wouldn't that qualify as expression of hatred of Jews or Jewish mindset?
If it's wrong to generalize about Jews(or blacks, Chinese, Poles, etc)that way, why is it okay to say something like that about Americans?
Wouldn't it have been less hateful and more sound of Rosenbaum to say, for example, "Americans have an unhealthy fascination with serial killers" or "American cinema's fixation with serial killers is a disturbing trend". Rosenbaum could have been fair-mindedly critical of American culture and attitudes without slandering Americans as lovers of mass murderers.

Also, if we follow the logic of the statement, 'Americans love mass murderers', doesn't it imply that certain Americans love mass murderers more than other groups? How many Amish Americans are in the movie business or regularly watch blood-soaked Hollywood movies?
Isn't it true that the bulk of Hollywood writers, directors, and producers have been Jewish? If we follow Rosenbaum's logic that American cinema is a symptom of American love of mass murderers, shan't we conclude that Jewish-Americans(and Italian-Americans--Tarantino, Scorsese, DePalma, etc) are more in love with mass murderers than other Americans?

And, since Rosenbaum loves Mr. Arkadin, a movie about a bloody murderer--portrayed in not entirely unsympathetic manner--, does it mean he love mass murderers too?

And, you don't think it's a stretch(!!!!) to say that since Americans love to watch Hannibal Lecter(though many more Americans did NOT see the movie nor others of its kind), they must take great pleasure in the tragic mayhem that is going on in Iraq? You don't think that is offensive or nasty in the slightest?

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Movicus at 4:00 PM on 11/17/2007

Ehrnstein...

I don't know what I said to or about you. I, like others, were commenting on Rosenbaum's review. Yet, YOU interjected yourself between Rosenbaum and us. You picked the fight.

And,why don't you mail me the gas pipe.

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Movicus at 4:41 PM on 11/17/2007

In terms of social context, this movie makes sense in terms of the current 'illegal immigration' debate. What are some of the great fears among Americans concerning the porous borders between US and Mexico? Not for nothing have some people compared this movie with Welles's Touch of Evil which also used loosenational borders as a morality-tale metaphor. Coens' Too Much of Evil?

Anyway, consider the fears regarding borders between US and Mexico. Drug trade, official corruption, criminals who come and go, and even terrorists sneaking across. Though Chigurgh's ethnicity seems uncertain, as he's played by a hispanic actor he registers in the minds of many viewers as a Chicano psycho.

As movies allow identification with the trangressors, the appeal of this movie is in empowering the audience with that which disempowers them in real life. In real life, a corrupt cop or drug dealer is bad news you never wanna come across; he is the OTHER guy with more power and bigger balls. In movies, you can feel and experience the power, temptation, and joy of corruption, greed, and mayhem. We hate corrupt cops but what would you do if you're a corrupt cop who comes upon $2 million in cash? Movies allow that fantasy-identification.

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an exhausted reader at 5:01 PM on 11/17/2007

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Is DV's torturous demonstration supposed to be interesting? Educational? Enlightening? Can't he at least try to keep us awake while making his plodding argument?

If I read Rosenbaum correctly, enjoying something and being entertained by it means liking it. It doesn't necessarily mean loving it. And it's also theoretically possible to dislike something even though one is entertained by it, which doesn't necessarily equal hating it. Can't we reserve hatred for things that are truly evil, and reserve our love for things that enhance our life significantly rather than lavish it on things that simply divert us for a couple of hours? And isn't it possible to dislike and/or disapprove of certain movies, even if they happen to divert us? If memory serves, Rosenbaum gave the movie one star, meaning , "Has redeeming facet," not a black bullet, which means "Worthless". This assumes that he thinks it's worth something.

Of course, if you live in a thumbs-up or thumbs down universe, such distinctions are clearly meaningless. But my point is that I don't hate DV's post--I don't even dislike it intensely; I'm just bored by it.

For precisely the same reason, Rosenbaum obviously should have written, "America sure does like [i.e., is entertained by] some of its fictional mass murderers". Saying "America loves its mass murderers" as a blanket statemnent is certainly offensive, even if some Americans enthusiastically give Oscars to actors who portray mass murderers.

'Nuff said.

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Jayke at 5:44 PM on 11/17/2007

Worst review ever. I'm done reading JR.

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David Ehrenstein at 5:59 PM on 11/17/2007

"Get back to being professionally gay, now."

Get back? I never went away. It's a noble profession. But you wouldn't know about that now would you dear.

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who cares at 7:40 PM on 11/17/2007

movicus fanaticus you are a boring blabbermouth. Dcrich at the beginning of the comments makes a good response to the review. Learn from him. I actually liked Rosenbaum's dopey review better in comparision to all that babble you post in response.

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ChigurhDaddy at 1:31 AM on 11/18/2007

Jr's review is harsh but not totally without some valid points. Just saw movie and thought it was good but not the best film made in years as some critics are calling it. Brolin actually was very good with some skillful acting with the best being done in scenes without dialogue. Bardem will surely get an Oscar nod. The scene in the gas station was very unnerving and Bardem has this controlled psychosis that is really rare and not over the top.Up there with Pitt (Kalifornia), Bale(American Psycho) and the actor who played Lil Ze' in City of God.

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Movicus at 3:22 PM on 11/18/2007

Tired, exhausted, and sleepy(??) reader...

Do you read and write in your sleep?
Well, that explains your state of mind.

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Victoria Charkut at 12:29 PM on 11/19/2007

"I admire the creativity and storytelling craft of the Coen brothers, but I can’t for the life of me figure out what use they think they’re putting that creativity and craft to."


Exactly. Woody Allen did the same thing, remake a pretty good movie into a huge hit with different (younger/more dangerous) actors. (Match Point) Guaranteed success.

A.O.Scott here in New York said in his video review "This will be the best movie you see this year." On that I went to see this movie. Too bad he didn't tell me about all the violence. So far my favorite movie is Darjeeling Limited.

I'm tired of going to bed after a movie and seeing visions of exploding heads and open wounds.

Gosh! There's so much attacking going on here. Wow. Guess NYC isn't so rude after all.

I liked your review.

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Josh at 2:56 PM on 11/19/2007

How does one become "professionally gay?" Is heterosexual activity restricted to weekends and holidays?

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Zionist at 5:28 PM on 11/19/2007

And I forgot the other Jewish filmmaker that jealous Jonny boy keeps bashing while he supports the enemies of his religion. Thanks to Victoria for reminding me about Allen.

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Jealous Jonny Boy at 5:46 PM on 11/19/2007

I can recognize Zionist's scaredy-cat pseudonymous style of sniping anywhere, which he devotes large portions of his life to exercising. Can't he find anything better to do with his life than attack a non-practising Jew for his ethnic background?

As a good indication of his delusional, foaming-at-the-mouth obsession with Judaism and Communism, his only topic, he recently labeled Steven Soderburgh a red Jew on another blog. I'm sure this must be news to Mr. Soderburgh. I've attacked him too, which must serve as further proof that he's Jewish AND a Marxist. (Is Woody Allen a Marxist? I guess he must be.) Same thing with Zionist--who must surely be a self-hating Jew (and, for all I know, a closet self-hating Marxist to boot), which is why I'm now attacking him. The next thing you know, I'll be giving a bad notice to Jesus Himself, another Jew Commie.

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Movicus at 6:18 PM on 11/19/2007

Here's some more tiresome blabbering(may not be suitable for sensitive and sleep-deprived readers)...

Actually, "No Country for Old Men" sounds like the state of our cinema which is geared for youths and not for old folks. Call it No Movie for Old Men--of which Rosenbaum is now a member. But, suppose Rosenbaum were 17 yrs old today. He'd probably love it as much as he did the tiresome recycled genre exercises of the 50s.

---

Speaking of the alleged false portrayal of small town life in Lars and the Real Girl, isn't Rosenbaum projecting HIS personal experience onto all small towns? Many people from small towns remember tightknit, caring communities. Not all small towns are the same; same goes for neighborhoods in big cities. Some are friendly and communal, some are downright hostile and crazy.
I've known both.

As for the psycho-killer Chigurh(pronounced chigger? I haven't seen the movie yet), maybe Rosenbaum is wrong to expect psychological explanations. Maybe he's more a psycho-mythical figure, like some funny dude in a David Lynch movie. Maybe he's the personification of the fears, guilt, anxiety, and whatnot a person--Moss in this case--goes thru when he's done something really bad. Like Furies in Greek mythology or some of the spooky figures in Shakespeare--whose work I mainly know from movie adaptations.
So, instead of wondering about Chigurh's psychology, maybe we should accept him AS psychology. He is a phantom manifestation of all the pscyhic fears haunting Moss after he done something really bad. He's the nemesistic side out to squash the hubristic side of Moss. So, maybe this is Coens trying to do Lynch and Cronenberg--whose History of Violence was one badass fun movie albeit with token thoughtfulness to flatter our pseudo-intellectual selves.

And, maybe there's a historico-mythic aspect of Chigurh as well. If his name is indeed pronounced 'chigger', he could stand for all three victims of white dominance. The name sounds American Indian, the chi- part of the name sounds like Chicano(and maybe even 'chink', and -gger part sounds like the epithet for black folks. So, Chigurh could be the vengeful hitman representative ghosts of people-of-color victims on a rampage to wipe the floor with them white boys--kinda like Chaney in Once Upon a Time in the West. Or, maybe it's like The Shining where long ago buried-and-forgotten Indian ghosts haunt white girls and boys half to death. So, maybe Chigurh is out for more than drug money. He's out for the whole loot white man done stole for ages.

End of blabbering.

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Zionist at 7:32 PM on 11/19/2007

After thinking about it a little more, I have to concede that jealous Jonny boy has no religion, so he can't attack the enemies of his religion. However, he DOES have an ethnicity, and it should be pretty obvious by now that I'm the enemy of that.In other words, I'm an antisemitic asshole, and a bit deranged as well. So sue me.

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Tired of the blabbering at 7:48 PM on 11/19/2007

The cat's out of the bag. Movicus (who must be as tired as me, because he can't even be bothered to type his fake surname now) hasn't seen "No Country For Old Men". But that doesn't prevent him from writing more words about it by now than even Rosenbaum did, including the age group that he thinks would like it. Sounds like a professional publicist to me.

He apparently hasn't met Rosenbaum, but that doesn't prevent him from jumping to all sorts of conclusions about his life, his personality, his swimming hole, his radical reading, his friend Lyle, what he was like as a 17-year-old (or what he would be like if he were 17 years old today), and even his experience of small towns.

I'll grant him that he's experienced two kinds of small towns--the friendly and communal kind, and the hostile and crazy kind. Apparently he hasn't experienced the friendly and crazy kind, which is what "Lars and the Real Girl" is about. But, then again, it's not clear whether or not he's seen this film. All we know is that he has an opinion about it, and he believes everyone should know it.

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Movicus at 8:08 PM on 11/19/2007

Here's more blabbering...

No, I haven't seen Lars and Real Girl; only heard about it thru review above. Not the kind of movie I'd wanna watch. Sounds cute and gooey, Forrest Gump crossed with Garden State.

Also, I don't think you have to see most movies these days to discuss them. Just check moviespoiler.com--which is what I did--and you get the gist of it.
The look, feel, sound, and texture of most movies are predictable--no less so with the Coens. If I know the basic plot, I can just close my eyes and see the new Coens movie with its cinematic gizmo tricks, cleverness, stylistic stunts. True of almost everyone else as well. For example, I finally did get around seeing Jackie Brown, Kill Bill 1 and 2, and guess what? They were EXACTLY as I'd imagined them.
Maybe I'll catch NO COUNTRY when it comes on dvd, and I expect it to be Raising Arizona on downers and meth. No way I'm wasting ten bucks on some stupid Coens movie.

End of blabbering.

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Movicus at 8:24 PM on 11/19/2007

PS.
No, I've never seen or met Rosenbaum personally, but Rosenbaum's been serving up bits and pieces of his bio thru his reviews over the yrs--which we could have done without.
For instance, how do I know a personal detail such as Rosenbaum watching Barbarella under LSD?
Trust me, I don't care to know, but Rosenbaum likes to volunteer these details. I don't believe any major reviewer is as autobiographical as Rosenbaum. After awhile, an impression of what makes Rosenbaum tick becomes unavoidable(Denby did this with a full length book about his personal life. Rosenbaum does this thru his movie writings. Is it because Rosenbaum believes film reviwing is a deeply personal process or because he's just plain narcissistic? I dunno).
And surely you didn't think that I literally meant that Rosenbaum had a friend named Lyle or even knows how to fish, which I'll bet he doesn't. But, maybe he'll disclose facts on fishing(maybe under the influence of LSD)--in the South, in France, in Chicago--in future reviews.

End of blabbering.

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Jill Bains at 1:20 AM on 11/20/2007

The film was a huge disappointment. The iciness was converted into a laugh fast, an almost comedic vision. There was a complete failure of tone. People in the audience were laughing out loud at the jokiness, which in the book did not come off as funny. The film was a completely 'denatured' vision of the book, and a complete disaster, which would have been better off as an outright cartoon.
Bardem was miscast. Critical and interesting pieces of the book were elided. If Jonathan Rosenbaum was saying there was a complete failure of tone or an inability to treat the material seriously, he may have said or meant that, but I'm not sure what he said or what he meant.

The material could have been realized as something considerably more chilling, than the bumbling joke feast it became, which instead of acting as effective punctuations, overpowered the tone of the entire film.

Campy, at best.

That the review was vaguely despirited is because it was accurately reflecting the silliness of the film itself, which is purely the fault of the over rated Coen brothers.

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Jill Bains at 1:35 AM on 11/20/2007

"The picture of human nature in No Country for Old Men is by contrast so bleak..."
-(Jonathan Rosenbaum)

Nonsense.

The picture of 'human nature' in the film was not bleak enough.

You have serious material.

Then treat it seriously.

Unflinchingly.

There was so little of the book in the film.

Josh Brolin was an accurate rendition.

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Josh at 6:59 PM on 11/20/2007

I have a different way of rating movies. The question is not whether they are good or bad. The question is whether you enjoy them or not. I normally hate Coen Bros. movies for all the obvious reasons. But I very much enjoyed NCOM because I was able to make that leap and "believe" this universe existed -- I was totally transported into it. You have to give a film credit that can do that.

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adam at 9:41 PM on 11/20/2007

I haven't seen NCFOM so I'm not going to criticize it or defend it. I just have a more general question. One of Rosenbaum's complaints is that the film presents a bleak picture of human nature without offering any kind of hope in the face of atrocity. My question is, what's wrong with that?

I've never understood this demand for a movie to be at least a little bit life-affirming before it can be deemed great. Why CAN'T a great movie be 100% bleak? This question seemed to be one of the points of debate in the recent Bergman status quibble. Rosenbaum seemed to take the line that Bergman would be a greater artist if his pictures were more humanist, contained a brighter picture of human nature or at least of possibility. But he leaves it at that - as though this judgment speaks for itself.

So following this line - is Van Gogh an inferior painter because his vision was bleak? Munch's
"The Scream"? - Oh, if only he could see the bright side of things . . . Beethoven and Mozart's sadd pieces are just not as good. And let's not even get into poetry!

Obviously, there are major points of difference between artforms which limit the extent of these analogies; however, I'm still waiting to see a good argument put forward as to why a film can't be considered both unyieldingly bleak AND amazing. In many respects, life stinks and human beings are hell. If a great film artist can express this perspective in a novel, interesting, and thoughtful way, I don't think it should be held against him - I don't think it makes him any less a filmmaker than someone painting a more positive picture or one with hope.

In other words, I don't see how this complaint against the Coen Brothers is a worthy complaint at all. (And the same goes for it apropos of Bergman.)

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adam at 10:05 PM on 11/20/2007

Here's another comment I have - this one in Rosenbaum's defense. Many of you guys are saying that Rosenbaum is criticizing the Coen Bros. without taking into consideration what's originally from the book. In other words, he's blaming the Coen Bros. for something McCarthy came up with or displayed in his pages. And you guys leave it at that - as though because it's in the book it's invulnerable to criticism, as if McCarthy's invulnerable to criticim. God forbid Rosenbaum's criticisms apply directly to McCarthy! . . . My point is - can't a reader/viewer disagree with both McCarthy AND the Coen Brothers? You guys defend the Coen Bros. by pointing to McCarthy as though the Coen Bros. had no choice but to make such a literal adaptation! - that they had no say in the matter! Newsflash: the Coen Bros. are big boys. They can be held responsible for what's on the screen. They decided to put it there.

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DAL at 12:20 PM on 11/21/2007

To Adam: JR's actual statement in the review is: "The picture of human nature in No Country for Old Men is by contrast so bleak I wonder if it must provide for some a reassuring explanation for our defeatism and apathy in the face of atrocity." The key phrase is "provide for some a reassuring explanation for our defeatism and apathy." JR’s target here is ‘defeatism and apathy in the fact of atrocity,’ not movies that present a ‘bleak’ picture of human nature per se.

Note to some of JR’s other detractors: JR’s review is marked throughout with qualifications like "I wonder," "I’m wary of," "I tend to dislike," etc. In other words, there’s considerably more respect for his readers than many of those commenting on this review have for theirs.

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adam at 4:22 PM on 11/21/2007

DAL - I disagree. The "key phrase" is actually in Rosenbaum’s next line: "I can’t for the life of me figure out what use they think they’re putting that creativity and craft to." The implication is that if a film only presents a bleak picture of human nature (which to some viewers may provide a reassuring explanation...) - if the film doesn't ultimately give way to a more positive outlook - then that film isn’t "useful" - and if a film isn’t "useful" then it can’t be deemed a great film. This is Rosenbaum’s implicit line of reasoning.

So my original question still stands: Why must a film present a more positive picture in order for it to be deemed great? Why can't a great movie express the opinion "life is shit", "man is terrible"? It's a belief we've all held at least at some point – dare I say, it might even be true! In other words, why are we demanding that films be edifying in this way? It almost seems like a fascist decree – you can easily imagine a totalitarian (or "really existing socialist") government order: "Films must uplift the people! We will not tolerate films so bleak! They are not politically constructive!"

And to approach this subject from a different angle, couldn’t it actually be argued that the Coen Bros. are in fact moral filmmakers (not the monsters that Rosenbaum implies) based on the fact that they’re not pulling wool over the viewers’ eyes; i.e. that they’re telling the actual truth of things: human nature is the pits - but at least we’re saying so, we’re not sugarcoating anything. Obversely, a film which on its face may seem morally uplifting may actually be immoral in so far as it presents a positive picture when in reality the picture isn’t positive, it’s very bleak.

I may sound (and personally feel) like a nihilist now making this argument, but I think it’s an argument worth making because I’m tired of it always being taking for granted that a great film mustn’t be so bleak, it mustn’t lend itself to defeatism or apathy, etc. Contrary to all appearances, like I already stated, there’s a fascist element to this implicit demand.

(It may be worth mentioning that maybe some of it has to do with the fact that – as one commenter stated – Rosenbaum’s main point of reference is the Golden Age of Hollywood, when happy endings were required of all movies and everything was sunny in the end.)

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adam at 4:41 PM on 11/21/2007

In reference to my previous comment, the line of reasoning and judgment that I credit Rosenbaum with is most evident (actually outright stated) in his attitude toward most of Fassbinder's work.

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DAL at 5:38 PM on 11/21/2007

JR doesn't state that the 'only' thing going on in this film is a presentation of a 'bleak' picture of human nature. (His next paragraph begins "I hasten to add I hasten to add there’s more to this grim, ambitious movie than a psychopathic assassin of the highest order whose carnage is gorgeously shot, though I seriously doubt it would be garnering so much enthusiasm without such perks.") The question you are posing – "Why must a film present a more positive picture in order for it to be deemed great?" – isn’t one that this review is particularly concerned with or one that can be laid at JR’s doorstep, even if your reading of the review has raised this question in your own mind.

I don’t have the text of JR’s Bergman article in front of me (or his reviews of Fassbinder for that matter), but if memory serves much of the impetus of that piece seemed to be a critique of the uncritical hagiography Bergman’s death was occasioning among critics, not a claim that if Bergman had slapped a feel-good ending on "Shame," for example, JR would happily join in the chorus of Bergman’s would-be hagiographers.

Rossellini’s "Open City," to give one example of a film I would call ‘great,’ offers, on one level, a pretty ‘bleak’ picture of humanity. But it also offers other things as well.

The Coens’ latest, which I have seen, and as JR acknowledges in his review, does the same, although in my opinion, and probably JR’s as well, it hardly qualifies as a great movie.

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Ghostdog at 6:51 PM on 11/21/2007

Movicus. I dont think JR's typical downing of the Coens has anything to do with a generational thing. I think that he is not a big fan of theirs because a lot of their condescension which I do agree with. (Though I admit I love Raising Arizona) I also think he feels they leave too much on the table and will get lazy and go for the cheap joke which I was glad they avoided this time around. I kind of think he feels they should be so much better than they are.

Though if I have noticed a pattern its that JR seems to be overly critical of films that are portrayed in the south or circle around a small town usually south of the mason dixon line. Perhaps he is too close to growing up there that it is hard for him to distance himself from that. Perhaps not.

Either way, I think the Coens have made some wonderful films and some not so wonderful, and this one I think fits in the former in that it is a tremendous well crafted B-movie. I do also agree with his points on Silence of the Lambs.

Personally whather I agree or disagree with JR I always enjoy reading him because I always am hit on a different angle than the other media dopes. Its nice to be fed something different then the same crap over and over.


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ALF at 7:34 PM on 11/21/2007

People, whether they know it or not, are attracted to killers in films because it gives us all the visceral thrill of witnessing something we would never do through the vantage point of someone who is doing it. Of course not everyone is the same and some of us feel morally higher than others. Some of us, (not me) feel above the nasty mess that we see or witness in films with killers. I suspect that even if the visceral thrill is there, some people burry it, hide it, or just do not admit it to themselves or others. Some people just flat out lie. The truth is that none of us are saints or souls. We are all capable of many horrors and many good deeds. Schindler's List showed this well with Schindler being far from perfect and capable of great compassion. We are all the same. We are all capable of both. We also have, buried in our psyches, many things from the past of our species. Our dreams are proof enough of what is buried in us. Only God knows where some of mine and all of our nightmares come from. Films like No Country For Old Men alludes to this vast and often scary collective unconscious we are all tapped into.

When we are drawn to films with people getting killed, for what ever namby pamby moral reason is tacked on or we feel might is there, we are just flirting with our mortality and what lies beyond waiting for us on the next plane of existence. Death is a flirtation with what is to come next. The unknown. God. The universe. I suspect we are so fascinated with this death stuff as a society, if the USA must be the country simultaneously critiqued reviewed since it produced the Coen Brothers and hence the film, since our spirituality is mostly lacking. Even those of us who are closely aligned with what ever religion we were born into or chose as adults, we are still lacking spirituality since our religions are mostly missing the mark and misinterpreting the aspects that get us closer to alluding to what is the very mystery of existence. Films, oddly enough, sometimes do this for us now. Often we do not even know why films excite entire populations, critics, or age groups. Usually it is because myth is embedded deep in a film and it speaks to us in ways we have never even been taught. How do we resonate with such films and why? We are human, and no amount of current politics, rhetoric, or reasons behind what ever war is being fought currently can break us of what is imbedded in our unconscious. All our conscious mind can do is convince us we are something else other than what we actually are. And if you think we don't pretend to be something other than a human animal then give up your deodorant, go kill your own food, build your own house, and stop conforming to the ever changing rules of what ever society you belong to. You are pretending. We all are to some degree or another. The review presupposes some sort of moral veneer that in the vastness of the universe does not actually exist. The film shows and points out the indifference of this universe. The reviewer does not.

And as far as Abu garbe goes. I could care less about what happened to the prisoners. And you and every one else who wagged a finger at how horrible it was, didn't care either. The finger wagging is us all pretending in the face of everyone else all pretending. really we liked what we saw, that is why we watch it on the news. next time you watch the news, ask yourself, why am I watching this horrible mess, and why and how is it any different than a film? truth is, it's no different. As Yoda would say, "No! It's only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."

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ALF at 7:36 PM on 11/21/2007

People, whether they know it or not, are attracted to killers in films because it gives us all the visceral thrill of witnessing something we would never do through the vantage point of someone who is doing it. Of course not everyone is the same and some of us feel morally higher than others. Some of us, (not me) feel above the nasty mess that we see or witness in films with killers is below them. I suspect that even if the visceral thrill is there, some people burry it, hide it, or just do not admit it to themselves or others. Some people just flat out lie. The truth is that none of us are saints or souls. We are all capable of many horrors and many good deeds. Schindler's List showed this well with Schindler being far from perfect and capable of great compassion. We are all the same. We are all capable of both. We also have, buried in our psyches, many things from the past of our species. Our dreams are proof enough of what is buried in us. Only God knows where some of mine and all of our nightmares come from. Films like No Country For Old Men alludes to this vast and often scary collective unconscious we are all tapped into.

When we are drawn to films with people getting killed, for what ever namby pamby moral reason is tacked on or we feel might is there, we are just flirting with our mortality and what lies beyond waiting for us on the next plane of existence. Death is a flirtation with what is to come next. The unknown. God. The universe. I suspect we are so fascinated with this death stuff as a society, if the USA must be the country simultaneously critiqued reviewed since it produced the Coen Brothers and hence the film, since our spirituality is mostly lacking. Even those of us who are closely aligned with what ever religion we were born into or chose as adults, we are still lacking spirituality since our religions are mostly missing the mark and misinterpreting the aspects that get us closer to alluding to what is the very mystery of existence. Films, oddly enough, sometimes do this for us now. Often we do not even know why films excite entire populations, critics, or age groups. Usually it is because myth is embedded deep in a film and it speaks to us in ways we have never even been taught. How do we resonate with such films and why? We are human, and no amount of current politics, rhetoric, or reasons behind what ever war is being fought currently can break us of what is imbedded in our unconscious. All our conscious mind can do is convince us we are something else other than what we actually are. And if you think we don't pretend to be something other than a human animal then give up your deodorant, go kill your own food, build your own house, and stop conforming to the ever changing rules of what ever society you belong to. You are pretending. We all are to some degree or another. The review presupposes some sort of moral veneer that in the vastness of the universe does not actually exist. The film shows and points out the indifference of this universe. The reviewer does not.

And as far as Abu garbe goes. I could care less about what happened to the prisoners. And you and every one else who wagged a finger at how horrible it was, didn't care either. The finger wagging is us all pretending in the face of everyone else all pretending. really we liked what we saw, that is why we watch it on the news. next time you watch the news, ask yourself, why am I watching this horrible mess, and why and how is it any different than a film? truth is, it's no different. As Yoda would say, "No! It's only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."

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ALF at 7:37 PM on 11/21/2007

People, whether they know it or not, are attracted to killers in films because it gives us all the visceral thrill of witnessing something we would never do through the vantage point of someone who is doing it. Of course not everyone is the same and some of us feel morally higher than others. Some of us, (not me) feel above the nasty mess that we see or witness in films with killer and murder. I suspect that even if the visceral thrill is there, some people burry it, hide it, or just do not admit it to themselves or others. Some people just flat out lie. The truth is that none of us are saints or sinners. We are all capable of many horrors and many good deeds. Schindler's List showed this well with Schindler being far from perfect and capable of great compassion. We are all the same. We are all capable of both. We also have, buried in our psyches, many things from the past of our species. Our dreams are proof enough of what is buried in us. Only God knows where some of mine and all of our nightmares come from. Films like No Country For Old Men alludes to this vast and often scary collective unconscious we are all tapped into.

When we are drawn to films with people getting killed, for what ever namby pamby moral reason is tacked on or we feel might is there, we are just flirting with our mortality and what lies beyond waiting for us on the next plane of existence. Death is a flirtation with what is to come next. The unknown. God. The universe. I suspect we are so fascinated with this death stuff as a society, if the USA must be the country simultaneously critiqued reviewed since it produced the Coen Brothers and hence the film, since our spirituality is mostly lacking. Even those of us who are closely aligned with what ever religion we were born into or chose as adults, we are still lacking spirituality since our religions are mostly missing the mark and misinterpreting the aspects that get us closer to alluding to what is the very mystery of existence. Films, oddly enough, sometimes do this for us now. Often we do not even know why films excite entire populations, critics, or age groups. Usually it is because myth is embedded deep in a film and it speaks to us in ways we have never even been taught. How do we resonate with such films and why? We are human, and no amount of current politics, rhetoric, or reasons behind what ever war is being fought currently can break us of what is imbedded in our unconscious. All our conscious mind can do is convince us we are something else other than what we actually are. And if you think we don't pretend to be something other than a human animal then give up your deodorant, go kill your own food, build your own house, and stop conforming to the ever changing rules of what ever society you belong to. You are pretending. We all are to some degree or another. The review presupposes some sort of moral veneer that in the vastness of the universe does not actually exist. The film shows and points out the indifference of this universe. The reviewer does not.

And as far as Abu garbe goes. I could care less about what happened to the prisoners. And you and every one else who wagged a finger at how horrible it was, didn't care either. The finger wagging is us all pretending in the face of everyone else all pretending. really we liked what we saw, that is why we watch it on the news. next time you watch the news, ask yourself, why am I watching this horrible mess, and why and how is it any different than a film? truth is, it's no different. As Yoda would say, "No! It's only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned."

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Movicus at 8:55 PM on 11/21/2007

Abu Grahib was nasty but nothing compared with torture and abuse of German prisoners in WWII. Since Nazis were scum, one could argue that Germans deserved it. Still, it makes American abuses today look a picnic.

As for the quotation from Orwell, what does Rosenbaum mean? That US is a concentration camp? That US has turned Iraq into a concentration camp? That are souls are imprisoned? Or, that American greed and imperialism imprison the world? This is funny when Rosenbaum was probably one of the few people who were not rejoicing when the Berlin Wall fell. And, if you wanna see a long nasty wall, there's one between Israel and West Bank. West Bank and Gaza have essentially been turned into Palestinian ghettos where people scrounge for a living like starving rats.

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Movicus at 9:18 PM on 11/21/2007

Adam...

Rosenbaum isn't knocking bleakness perse but fashionable bleakness. Notice that Rosenbaum loves plenty of art films from Europe and Taiwan that are bleaker than hell. But, one could argue that those artists really grapple with reality, real people, real problems. Some of these films are only psychicly violent. Some are physically violent BUT violence is not sensationalized. Consider films like Rosetta and Piano Teacher(though, of course, one COULD argue that Piano Teacher is pretty sensationalistic).

The problem with the Coens is they are never sincere as artists and only clever as stylists. Even when they are occasionally brilliant, they are restructuring the achievements of previous masters. Original, they are not... though O Brother is an exception; it's not much for story or character but the musical pieces--especially Hick Sirens along the riverbank--are saucy flavorful sublime stuff.

At any rate, Coens don't really deal with bleakness perse. It is merely a noirish or gothic excuse to serve up more violence. Take a movie like Man Who Wasn't There--which was wellmade and amusing enough--and its bleak noir shenanigans. Do you REALLY think Coens cared about those people in real sociologial or philosophical terms? No,they were merely an excuse for Coens to show off their revamped noir style.

Also, all this put-on fashionable bleakness is a way to have it both ways. On the one hand, Coens wanna goof off as much as Tarantino. But, if you add a touch of solemnity, maybe it's Oscar material. Gee, maybe it's a SERIOUS movie for the Fall Movie Season.
Coens have developed into formidable stylists, and I do like some of their movies: O Brother, Barton Fink, and Man Who Wasn't There. But, I'd say only O Brother is a great film. I've enjoyed some others--Fargo, parts of Miller's Crossing, etc--but they all left a bad taste with their film geek narcissism and retardo antics.

PS: Of course, even art films tend to rather formulaic on bleakness. Haneke, for instance, is making the same movie over and over, and it goes like this: 1. Look at the European Bourgeoisie. Oh my, aren't they respectable? 2. But, look beneath the exterior and they are pretty neurotic. 3. Look deeper, and by golly, they are f***** up. 4. Look em in the eye, and they are total rats!!!
And the usual suspects? Imperialist legacy, patriarchy, class repression, and so on. Snore. Well, at least his films are well made and compelling enough. Some are not even watchable. Who's the French clown who made Birth of Love? Problem isn't bleakness but boredom.

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nice marmot at 11:55 PM on 11/21/2007

I have enjoyed reading all of the thoughtful insults and thinly veiled conciet that is prevalent in this forum. It reminds me of the rediculous bravado that permeates the sports blogs following articles by Whitlock and his ilk. A group of people insulting each other under cover of anonymity. I must say, the sports bloggers use words with fewer syllables, but much more creative use of the words a*s*s* and f*a*g*. I truly did enjoy all of your reviews and appreciate this opportunity to join in the condescention. "The Dude abides."

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jahlen at 1:13 AM on 11/22/2007

By his own admission, Rosenbaum understands little of the film's intent, which is probably why he retreats into space-taking references to the exploits of Bush I. Might I suggest that he save his verbiage for projects that are within his grasp. For example, I hear puppet shows are generally not very complicated

When I was a child, I'd get into my parents' books and count the cusswords. On this basis, I was able to determine if a book was dirty or not. Never mind that I couldn't read much more than the cusswords.

Mr. Rosenbaum takes a similar approach in this review. He does quite well in enumerating the murders, but unfortunately, he cannot explain how these events culminate in an amazingly haunting ending without an ending.

Being trained by Hollywood as to what to expect in a movie, I was absolutely thrilled that Moss and Chigurh did not end the film in just another death match of good v. evil. Just like that, Moss was gone. No gratuitous scene where the protagonist straps on his supersized weapon and leaps into a car to go and kick the bad guy's ass.

Likewise with Sheriff Bell. While he epitomizes the simple country lawman that American audiences love to fantasize over, that caricature is not pitted against the more complex evil of Chigurh.

Maybe if Bell did a Sheriff Busser and got himself a big stick and beat Chigurh to death with it, Mr. Rosenbaum would not be so troubled.

For myself, I'll just applaud another magnificent effort by the Coen brothers.

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Chris at 3:17 AM on 11/22/2007

(duplicate)

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Chris at 3:19 AM on 11/22/2007

When I saw the Orwell quote, a more succinct but less hifalutin one from Tarkovsky came right to mind: "Content and conscience must come before technique, for any artist and in any art form." Rather than beat around the bush, let's just ask: while we already know that the Coens have the technique down just fine, does the film have a conscience? Yeah, there is the aspect of viewer fascination with the near-Terminator-like psycho-killer (the clothing and the whole self-repair ritual is a near-direct rip-off of the idea), does that only detract from a moral message or does it heighten it in its own fashion. You can still look at Shigurh and respond that he's the face of villainy, completely despicable. There is plenty of Coen-style morality on display regardless. If Sigurh really is a quasi-supernatural force in the movie, doesn't it make sense that the Moss character chose to dance with the devil, or maybe sell his soul to the devil, and thereby secure his fate by getting what he asked for?

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joe blow at 5:21 AM on 11/22/2007

wow,
you guys are reall a bunch of terds... i guess you guys think your as cool as the rosembaum terd. in 20 years we will watch this movie just as if it was made 40 years ago with no pretense to the iraq war and without anyone really caring. the bottom line is this was a kick ass movie, the killer had a nice twist of style with his lock blowing teqniches and the hero if you cold call him that was an awesome actor. toomy lee did his part. woody was kind of a terd but its good he didnt last long. this movie was fuckin awesome that left yo uwondering at the end. sorry im im typing drunk. but i think this is gettin way over analyzed and movies arent political. if you want to anaylize shit like that look at daytime kids tv shows or analyze beer commercials. rosenbaum adding his iraq comments in has nothing to do with this movie. in fact i negate anything he says just for saying that kind of shit and agree that the ebert comment should rule as to if this movie was good and worth seeing on a weekend. save all the politcal shit for nexts years election. this movie rocked. and everyone liked lector just because we were forced to like him. who else were we gonna like.. jodie foster? the gay homo? no lector. and f9ck silence of the lambs. its all about manhunter. gil grisoms beard is the sh9t. they made manhunter like 20 years ago and now all of a sudden people are turning on to cop shows when they had meat and potatoes way back then. nothing beats in a gadda da vida for 20 minutes for the final scene. also i like how this ended. we dont need the bloody showdown. and i loved how he killed her just for the principle.

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Jonathan at 9:34 AM on 11/22/2007

Well, I finally saw the film today. (Because of a worldwide film distribution conspiracy that Rosenbaum himself has written about, it wasn't available in my city until yesterday.)

I thought it was terrible. Someone up there--Jill, I think?--said everything I'd say there it to be said about it. The comic relief ruined everything. It was sloppily conceived and sloppily executed.

Nevertheless, I still think Rosenbaum's review was both stupid and predictable. Someone replied to one of my posts saying that Rosenbaum didn't bring up Abu Grahib, that the Coen Bros did. This is what Rosenbaum wrote: "...making particular allusion to Abu Ghraib by mentioning a torturer placing a dog collar around the neck of one of his victims."

Having now seen the film, I must say: bullshit. A character describes kidnapped elderly, in a sort of urban horror story, wearing dog collars. That isn't an allusion to Abu Grahib unless you very much want it to be. Furthermore, if that line is from the book--published in 2005--then it very likely wasn't a reference to the prison scandal, which occurred in 2004.

But if you're a house critic, burnt out and desperate for relevance, you'll say anything, won't you?

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Anthony Carter at 6:13 AM on 11/23/2007

dcrich said it best a few comments back. why do you have to take such a 'holier-than-thou' attitude when it comes to this film? just respond directly. chances are, most people didnt finish the review in its entirety anyways--nobody wants to read something this self-indulgent and conceded.

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Movicus at 2:08 PM on 11/23/2007

Was NO COUNTRY intended as a commentary on Iraq? I don't know but I suspect Rosenbaum's insinuations served to turn a movie review into op-ed.
For example, Rosenbaum asks why we love psycho-killer movies during war time. You mean we don't love psycho-killer movies during peacetime? What about all those slasher films in the late 70s and early 80s when US wasn't involved in any war(unless Cold War counts as such). Rosenbaum's argument is forced and desperate.

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Movicus at 2:10 PM on 11/23/2007

Joe Blow, did you watch the movie under the influence as well?
And was it only alcohol?

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Movicus at 2:13 PM on 11/23/2007

Anthony Carter,

Learn how to spell. You mean 'conceited', right?

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Daniel D at 2:16 PM on 11/23/2007

I have an actual plot point question. The Sheriff comes back to Moss' murder scene, inside the door of room 114. He sees that the lock was blown out by the air gun. He goes in. Cut to a shot of Anton hiding, in what appears to be the closet. The Sherrif goes into the bathroom with his gun, doesn't see anybody, sits down on the bed - and sees the air vent on the floor. He knows that Anton got the money - and that is where Moss hid it. Cut away.

Are we then to assume that Anton stayed hidden in the closet and the Sherrif never found him - obviously - or was it that Anton was in the next room over - or what was the purpose of having Anton there except to validate the Sherrif suspecting that he may return to the crime scene?

Thanks in advance.

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Michael Benton at 2:29 PM on 11/23/2007

I saw "No Country for Old Men" wednesday--only because I promised friends I would wait until Friday to see "I'm Not There" with them. After watching this boring film I wondered why critics were celebrating it. I couldn't even muster enough interest to comment on it.

The doltish comments attacking Rosenbaum's integrity, ideology and interests just demonstrates the irrational, insensitive and idotic (idios) fan-boys that slaver for depictions of mindless killers.

No matter how pretty the film (or person), if it is empty, then... Yawn!!!

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Movicus at 2:37 PM on 11/23/2007

My theory as to why Rosenbaum dislikes Woody Allen and the Coens.
Could it be due to familiarity-breeds-contempt phenomenon? What may strike many people--mostly gentiles--as Jewish brilliance may seem to Rosenbaum as just more Jewish silliness--wit without wisdom. Of course, Rosenbaum likes Jerry Lewis and Mel Brooks, but they represent wit without any pretension of wisdom.
Allen and Coens, on the other hand, are just as silly but strain toward Seriousness. Allen's Art Films are essentially tv-sitcom material wrung thru Bergmanisms, and Coens cinema is Looney Tunes made respectable. It's as though Coens reversed the process of parodization. Remmeber Looney Tunes aped Serious Hollywood Genres; Coens turned parody into serious drama. Even when Coens work on a serious material--novel by McCarthy--, their main points of reference are all the silly movies they'd seen in their film school days. And, considering their naturally parodic sensibilities, EVERYTHING--even serious films--they saw were probably made funny inside their childish heads.
So, Coens are essentially no different from the Marx Brothers or the Zuckermans. And, I think Rosenbaum would have no problem with silly Jews being silly Jews(as he has no gripes against Mel Brooks or Jerry Lewis). But, he resents silly Jews dressing up their juvenile--albeit witty and even brilliant--sensibility as sobered-up artistry.

Of course, things seem different to Europeans,for whom Allen and Coens's Jewish wittiness and brilliance are like a gush of fresh air after having to sit thru all those dull and constipated European Art Films. Notice that many French hate their own films; again, familiarity breeds contempt.

This could be why Rosenbaum over-praises Seriouis--and exotic from his point of view--art films from odd or 'neglected' places. They may be little more than pretentious and dull-witted, but
such qualities could be mistaken for mysteriousness and wisdom for someone tired of conventional wit and brilliance.
And, it's not just Rosenbaum. Notice all those Rational Westerners who are easy suckers for the wisdom and 'truths' of all those people-of-color folks. They are soooo Authentic!

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Movicus at 2:42 PM on 11/23/2007

Michael Benton,

Surely Rosenbaum is as gratuitous with ideology in his reviews as Coens are with violence and style in their movies.

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r at 5:24 PM on 11/23/2007

BIG NEWS!

You are an idiot.

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Nabokov's Ghost at 8:40 PM on 11/23/2007

Orwell, walls and concentration camps, oh, my! "I hasten to add" it's only a movie, man.

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Alan at 11:24 PM on 11/23/2007

Daniel D, here's how I see it...

Anton and the sheriff either were or were not at the crime scene simultaneously. It doesn't really matter.

By this point in the narrative, Anton had the money and had killed Moss as he had sworn to. All that was left for Anton to do was to kill -or to not kill- Moss's wife.

And at this point in the narrative, the sheriff was at the crime scene looking for answers to bigger questions.. his mind had wandered into contemplation of "modern society's changing tides" and family histories and such. He all but knew that he was only tracking this killer to advance a literary theme.

Remember what he told us at the film's open- how he admired the sheriffs of a bygone era who never needed to draw their guns? Was his gun drawn as he entered the hotel room? I cannot recall but my guess is that it was not. My point?.. He wasn't really there to catch a bad guy so it didn't matter if the bad guy was even there.

Anton and the sheriff either were or they were not at the crime scene simultaneously. It doesn't really matter.

But for what it's worth, they were not:
When the sheriff entered the hotel room he saw the smoky/ghostly/ethereal reflection of Anton in the empty cylinder of the damaged lock. (Do you recall their respective minutes-apart reflected silhouettes on the television at Moss's trailer? Do you recall how they shared a cold bottle of milk but were not in the trailer simultaneously?

Yes, yes, the Coens SHOWED us Anton hiding so I suppose that it is impossible for me to completely discredit the visual evidence. And, if pushed on this issue, I suppose I'll submit and say okay okay, Anton was there. He was hiding. He was there.

But I still say that it doesn't matter.

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I'm Right, You're Wrong at 5:34 AM on 11/24/2007

Have any of you losers ever considered the fact that it is Mr. Rosenbaums job to generate traffic toward the Chicago Reader website? Yes, this is so they can charge more for advertising space.

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blind boy at 5:40 AM on 11/24/2007

wow, this is sweet, i didnt even notice we could comment on JRs reviews, now I saw this little skirmish, mostly someone named Morpheus or somethin, so Moby you havent seen the film and you keep writing on this page? thats cool though, I thought you did a good job picking Rosenbaums review apart word for word, and if you comment on mine youll probably do the same, but still maybe you should see the movie before you blast him, I thought the film was great, i love the coens for what they bring to the modern hollywood scene, this could be their finest effort, of course lebowski is one of the funniest films ever, i think its great that a duo of movie buffs can be so versatile with their style, o brother, fargo, millers, and now no country, they have a signature and they can show that with so much range, hats off to the coens, and rosenbaum for getting this much feedback. moby sucks

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ALF at 6:11 PM on 11/24/2007

Anton hiding was symbolic of the force of nature he represented shadowing the sheriff.

It's the same reason he walked away from the car wreck. he is everlasting and can not be destroyed.

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Hank Kingsley at 8:11 PM on 11/24/2007

This Rosenbaum guy is the same one that said 'Grindhouse' didn't make much sense as "narrative". Uh huh. In one of those movies, a guy walked around with sacks of testicles. Come on. Just read this guy and have a laugh. It's clear that's all he's doing. What a dilettante.The Reader could do much better than this 'human being'.

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Derek at 10:39 PM on 11/24/2007

Any movie that attracts this much pretentious criticism is probably pretty good.

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MikeMike at 11:48 PM on 11/24/2007

After watching this movie tonight in Dallas, my friend asked me, "So what did you think?" I said, "It was OK if you don't mind another movie about psychopath murderers." He responded, "Which other movie about psychopathic murderers was there?"

My conversation with my friend reiterates Rosenbaum's review (btw I've never heard of this Rosenbaum guy or read anything by him - until now.) But I heartily agree: what IS the deal with our obsession with watching movies about remorseless mass murder? And why has this supremely rare breed of human, the psychopath murderer, slipped into the film element of our society so quietly to leave people saying "Which other movie about psychopathic murderers was there?"

Sure, the movie has its artist merits but the scope of the intent of film extends far beyond art. This was a film about morality and its ultimate moral message was vague. The Coens could have constructed a far more worthy piece of art by adhering to a standard of goodness in their film about evil. (Either that, or found a better book to turn into a movie.)

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Aurelle at 12:34 AM on 11/25/2007

This review was listed on Rotttentomatoes as 30%. While Mr. Rosenbaum seems to be astounded with the amount of praise the film got, the actual review seems more positive than the rating would suggest. (e.g. "They show off their narrative expertise by converting some of the sheriff’s plaintive monologues into terse dialogue and even more in the way they juxtapose the separate movements of Moss and Chigurh, sketching out a suspenseful cat-and-mouse game with some of the primal impact of silent pictures.")

Furthermore, while Mr. Rosenbaum acknowledges that the film is more than just about a remorseless killer, he spends little time in delving into what the film is really about. This reads like a reactionary piece to other critics than to the actual film. "Remorseless murder isn’t all there is to No Country for Old Men, but it’s all anyone seems to care about," he writes. I'm afraid that seems to be all he cares about too. I really think Mr. Rosenbaum has missed the boat on this one.

I've scribbled some notes on the film, an excerpt of which is as followed:

"Life, it would seem, precariously walked in the shadow of death, and fate was a random lottery draw. We, as human beings living on the edge of post modern time, while desperately trying our hands at continuing our forefathers' and foremothers' traditions, would be wise to know when it was no longer a thing to do in order to measure up with the old timers. The old timers never had to deal with what we do, and yet, as Bell's old friend wisely said, what we deal with are not all that new when looking at the core of humanity. Could this then, also, be an allegory for America, living in the age of unpredictability and great unknowns? Should America hang up its badge and forget about succeeding the previous generations' ambition to 'put things right'? Could it get out before it succumbed to its shadow? Would it keep borrowing on the innocence of the few to hide its bloody self, as seen in the film with Moss and Chigurh asking to buy someone else's shirt for cover?"

(For this and another piece on the film, you can check out Chicks on Fire, a wordpress blog I write for.)

I wish Mr. Rosenbaum had delved into the film more and commented on the reaction less. The latter should not have been a basis for a film's evaluation. It probably would've been a more interesting review.

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Movicus at 4:15 PM on 11/25/2007

Is Rosenbaum schizo or something? In his Reader review, the Dylan movie gets only 3 stars but in Film Comment it rates 5 stars.
In the Reader, he rates NO COUNTRY 1 star yet gives it 4 stars in Film Comment.
I know critics change their minds as when Rosenbaum reevaluated Basic Instict--still garbage as far as I'm concerned--, but that took 10 yrs. Now, Rosenbaum is changing his mind in a week or two. Whassup?

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Movicus at 4:20 PM on 11/25/2007

"it's only a movie, man", said Nabokov's ghost.
Man, nothing gets Rosenbaum's dander up more than them words.
A movie as more life than life is Rosenbaum's motto.

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Movicus at 4:22 PM on 11/25/2007

Chicago Reader, debug your movie site of errors. It's been three weeks already!

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Movicus at 5:19 PM on 11/25/2007

Alf..

being fascinated with death is not the same as being fascinated with killing.

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Tobin at 7:53 PM on 11/25/2007

For a movie this spare, suspensful and well-crafted, a one-star review is pure pretension. As is beginning a movie review with an Orwell quote. But it's obvious from the beginning that it's more a review of other critic's reaction to the film than to the experience of watching it, and a very self-righteous and condescending one.

The comparisons to Wild At Heart, Pulp Fiction and Silence of the Lambs are way off base. This film doesn't wallow in its bloodshed. In the tradition of great hard-boiled fiction, it only shows enough violence to make the threat of it seem real. I would agree with the comparison to Fargo, and add Blood Simple to it. But this is the work of a much surer hand than either of those. No Country is remarkable more for its sparsity and precision than for its pyrotechnics. We see lots of grotesque dead bodies lying around, but very little actual killing.

The film is as ambivalent and violent as the times we're living in. But what Rosenbaum is mistaking for amorality is really a kind of outrage fatigue.

The film balances a ceaseless sense of tension with a very real sense of how un-macho and un-romantic murder really is. It goes beyond any sense of "motives" and becomes a relentless force of nature, destroying all the lives that it touches. No Country is a much-needed anti-Tarrantino look at killing for what it is.

What Rosenbaum's basically accusing it of is showing killing at all without getting up on a soapbox and preaching down to its audience about how bad it is. And that is actually part of the Coen's strength as filmmakers. As with a lot of the plot points, the audience is expected so sort the film's meaning out for themselves. And all Rosenbaum's review is really saying is that he failed to do so.

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dave z at 12:22 AM on 11/26/2007

The author ignores the obviously allegorical nature of the film, choosing to focus on its violence. This is inane and self-serving, and does justice neither to the film's creators nor its potential viewers. The smart money is on this film being culturally relevant far longer than Rosenbaum's criticism, which defines itself in opposition to other contemporary critics.

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Louis Proyect at 2:16 PM on 11/28/2007

I was very disappointed with the ending. I would have much preferred a duel between Lewellen using a chainsaw and Chigurh using his stun-gun. Just as Lewellen is about to cut off Chigurh's head, he runs out of gas. But just as Chigurh is about to blast him with his stun-gun, the Sheriff bursts in toting a big sword like Bruce Willis used in the pawn-shop basement in "Pulp Fiction", except he is wearing a mohawk hairdo like O'Niro's in Taxi Driver. The three men then kill each other off. Now that would have been a real ending as opposed to the bullshit redneck philosophizing that the Coen brothers movie ended with. I guess you can't blame that too much, given the 3rd rate novel they were working with.

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oscist at 4:35 PM on 11/28/2007

I want to echo Movicus' concerns about the discrepancy between Rosenbaum's star-ratings here and in Film Comment. 4 stars to 1 star is a pretty big gap.

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Movicus at 6:39 PM on 11/28/2007

Is Rosenbaum movie reviewer as Chigurh? A critic whose keyboard is as mercilessas Chigurh's machine gun? No wonder some fellas here fire back at the Chigurh Reader.

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Movicus at 6:39 PM on 11/28/2007

My theory as to why this movie is popular among men...

Is NO COUNTRY appealing for is its amateur-vs-professional narrative? Most serious dramas are about ordinary or 'real' people without special skills or talent going about their humdrum lives.
And, most Hollywood movies are about tough guys with extraordinary intelligence, strength, and/or skills. Both serious films and Hollywood movies make us feel small. Serious movies present us as we are. And Hollywood movies present heroes we can never be.

But, there's the kind of movie that bridges the gap. Take Rocky which was in many ways a realistic drama where an ordinary joe--a palooka--fights the Heavyweight Champion of the World and holds his own. Or, consider the movie Rudy where some short stubby kid joins the practice squad of Notre Dame football and tussles with the best. These movies are realistic to the extent that the protagonist doesn't have a chance of being equal with or at beating the best. But, there is the hope that you can, at the very least, hold your own. You can't beat the champ, but you can go the distance. This way you get some guarded serious realism and the fairytale hope that, when push comes to shove, you aint no pushover.

Take NO COUNTRY. It's like Lone Star crossed with the Terminator. On the one hand, there is the surfeit of seriousness and realism. But, as the story develops, a third-rate cop Moss proves his mettle against the unstoppable Chigurh. An amateur--with whom most of us identify--goes the distance with the pro. It's like Sydow vs Death in Seventh Seal. Or, Benny in "Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia" showing he's as good as the pros. Or Hoffmann the crafty geek battling big thugs in Straw Dogs. There are even elements in this when Jamie Foxx turns the table on professional killer Cruise in "Collateral" though it's mostly Hollywood.
In an Hollywood movie, the hero beating the super tough bad guy is mere fantasy; also, the Hollywood hero, even when weaker than the bad guy, is still extraordinarily tough by our standards(like the rescuer in Terminator I). But, in movies like Rocky and No Country, the travails of the hero(or anti-hero) are all the more compelling because, maybe just maybe, they seem possible. Just maybe a palooka can go the distance with the Champ. Just maybe a third rate cop or you or I can shoot it out with the best of them in Texas. I guess this makes Travis Bickle both Moss and Chigurh--or Moss as Chigurh.

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Matt erler at 9:05 PM on 11/28/2007

It seems that the reviewer missed the point anyway. I'd see his point if No Country for Old Men contained no moral compass to keep the film in a place conscientious filmgoers can relate to, but No Country for Old Men has just that: Tommy Lee Jones. He sees the world through the eyes of the average viewer. He understands that violence exists, but he simply cannot comprehend that kind of brutality. It eludes him. I'd argue that this review is far too reactionary to be taken seriously. When your biggest rival in town gives the film four stars (Ebert, a far more coherent critic), you've got to distinguish yourself in some way.

But what really grates with me is the idea that a film's greatness derives from it's moral standing. This reviewer seems to find moral culpability in the Coen Brothers seemingly nihilistic violence.

His off-topic and cheap mention of Lars and the Real Girl, another fantastic film that this critic can't seem to wrap his morality around, gets blindsided. Is this a review of a film or the moral philosophy of the filmmakers.

I admire his willingness to go against the grain — that's always hard for a critic, though not risky in the least bit — but this review simply misses the point.

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RvB at 8:51 AM on 11/29/2007

Here's a few questions:
What exactly is the age difference between JR and the Coens? Is it truly vast enough to count as a generational split?
Considering the multiple refs to 50s films in the Coens, I'd guess not.
If there'd been the kind of ending in which Chigurh met justice--that is, the kind of ending that befalls so many serial killers in real life--would this invalidate the Coens' nihilism?
Are green-haired punk rockers in Dallas truly the mark of the apocalypse, "signs and wonders," or is this just some mirthless joke?
When Batman's nemesis Two-Face makes his victims flip a coin for their lives, what does this reveal about America, seeing how the bifurcated villain uses US currency during the coin toss?




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Julian at 11:24 AM on 11/29/2007

Hey Movicus: After making us suffer through line after line of your obnoxious babble, you actually have the balls to turn around and say you haven't even seen the fucking movie you've been writing about??? Jesus Christ, man, go out and get laid!!!!

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Alden at 4:21 PM on 11/30/2007

I just got out and got laid and I can honestly say I had more fun doing that then reading this critic.
What a guy. Haven't seen the movie yet though ;-)

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FEV at 5:21 PM on 11/30/2007

The Reader really needs to get rid of this self-rigteous, arrogant, boor. Please help the cause and write a letter to the editor.

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Movicus at 9:08 PM on 11/30/2007

RvB,

The crucial generational split is not between Rosenbaum and the Coens but between Rosenbaum and today's young fans of the Coens. Coens are old hat for Rosenbauym. For young cinephiles, they are coolest dudes around--next to Tarantino anyway.

Julian...

Bitches today are no good, man. I'd rather bitchslap you and other bitches here.

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Wes at 2:38 PM on 12/1/2007

Any movie that asks Javier Bardem to wear a Prince Valiant haircut is begging for laughs. But what if he's killing almost every one he meets while he's wearing it? The hair is only a little funny in No Country for Old Men. Gruesome, comic, and awesomely eloquently as it was, nothing about McCarthy's book said "Coen brothers," but the staggering movie they've made is very much the precision thriller of "Blood Simple" and "Fargo"'s comedy of the broken law. But "No Country" contains very little of the regional mockery that characterizes a lot their recent movies. Even the yokels here have a serious streak. The acting is superb across the board, from Jones and Bardem to the locals in bit parts to Kelly MacDonald as the sort supportive wife (Brolin's) who would make Tammy Wynette proud. (Beth Grant is a riot as Brolin's nattering mother-in-law.) I love the movie's visual contours, too, the way the photography and editing perfectly dramatize McCarthy's prose and poetically blunt dialogue, a lot of which shows up here. The scale and scope are perfect. And the suspense here surpasses most horror films. This is a masterpiece.

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SeeBee at 8:58 PM on 12/1/2007

"He too makes the point that many films are awfully upsetting, and that it's naughty to upset him. See also Roger Ebert's Blue Velvet review, another classic of the I-was-totally-within-its-grips-but-no-no-no
it-is-wicked-I-tell-you genre."

Nice try, but that isn't what Rosenbaum is saying. He isn't complaining about the Coens or McCarthy being too "upsetting" or "disturbing". He's complaining about a lack of insight on their part into the reasons why this horrible violence occurs. The murderer is just a cipher, reflecting not the "mystery of things" but the severe limitations of the Coens as thinkers, philosophers, psychologists, and artists (which is why sneering and condescension have been favorite tacks of theirs in the past).

I think McCarthy is an extraordinary writer, by the way, but I also think it might be the case that he's past his prime and is simply recycling older, better, novels like BLOOD MERIDIAN. (isnt Chigurh a retread of the Judge from the earlier book?)

Flannery O'Connor also had a very violent, dark imagination. Rosenbaum points to her superior artistry. One might also point out that the obfuscation and obscurantism and nihilism McCarthy and the Coens are resorting to is at the opposite pole from Shakespeare or Dostoyevsky, who really had something penetrating to say about people's capacity for violence.



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Jeff Fries at 1:56 AM on 12/2/2007

I know you're probably not reading this page anymore Mr. Rosenbaum, but I just wanted to add that the character of Carla Jean's mom Agnes (played by Beth Grant) reminded me of the grandmother character in A Good Man is Hard to Find. Not only is her character also being escorted in an automobile against her will, complaining loudly the whole time, she recognizes that the man who comes to help them when their car stops as a threat (in the story I guess she identifies him as the Misfit outright; in the film she remarks how unusual it is to see a Mexican in a suit). It would be interesting to know whether this character was in the original book, portrayed as she is here. She looks like how I imagined the character in A Good Man.

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Sean at 3:01 PM on 12/2/2007

I think this movie review was just about perfect. I saw this movie last night and walked out saying -- how the hell is continuing to show us the horrors of the world, helping the world. I give this reviewer a lot of credit for speaking the truth and not bowing down to the popular consensus that nihilist violence is some sort of deep message. Nihilistic violence is only adding to the nihilistic violence. This movie is stupid, cliche, and depressing. It will soon be forgotten, although teenagers watching it now will have a little more desensitization seared into their brains. The Coen brothers are hypocrites extraordinaire.

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Chigurh at 3:43 PM on 12/2/2007

I hate you guys. Every last one. Why don't you suck on my gun and smoke it. Rosenbaum sucks. You guys suck.
But, I'm gonna give you turds a chance.
I'm gonna flip a coin. Heads or tails? What's your call?
Well...?

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Moss at 3:46 PM on 12/2/2007

Shiite, I've been running from Chigurh, a crazy mofo. But, this Rosenbaum dude is even worse. It's like I stole HIS drug money, crazy bastard.

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Chigurh at 3:56 PM on 12/2/2007

Sean, you stupid turd,
Rosenbaum loves plenty of movies with excessive pointless violence... at least when he's foolish enough to think there's actually a point.
But, my killings have a REAL point. How do my victims spend their leisure time? Watching all these violent movies with gunslingers, killer robots, gangsters, etc. People think violence is some kind of fantasy, some kind of game. Violence is REAL. It really kills. And, each of my victims learned an important lesson about the REAL thing. And, the lesson is you only get to learn it once. As for the newfound wisdom, it can only be prized in heaven or hell.
Of course, folks watching the movie are getting thrills from my killing... like that 'terd' Joe Blow. I'm thinking of walking out of the screen and blowing away all the audience as well. Now, there's a real lesson for all you fellars.

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Moss at 3:59 PM on 12/2/2007

Yeah, Chigurh you asshole. Go after the audience and leave me alone. I've had enough of your 'lessons'. You runned me ragged 100x worse than what Tommy Lee done to Norton in Three Trials of Erik Estrada. This shit's getting crazy, man.

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Bunker boy at 5:13 PM on 12/2/2007

Louis Proyect, maybe you're right about changing the ending. But, I have a better idea. How about Moss and Chigurh played respectively by Beavis and Butthead? That wooda kicked ass, man.

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IncaMaoist at 6:23 PM on 12/2/2007

I was with a large group of couples who saw this film. The interesting thing was how the guys really adored this film (in a big way). Where the women of the party were generally slightly positive or neutral. Regarding JB, its a mixed bag for any reviewer. They are damned if they like something and damned if they don't. Take care.

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Kifah Foutah at 7:11 PM on 12/2/2007

You give this movie one star here, but in The new issue of film comment you give it 4 stars. Can you please clarify exactly what you think of this movie, and why there is such a large difference in your ratings (the same is also true of "Im Not There". If you are truly going through such dramatic motions with your opinions of these movies it would be nice to know Mr.Rosenbaum

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Chigurh at 9:53 PM on 12/3/2007

Kifah Foutah..

Rosenbaum changed his mind after he realized it aint wise to mess with Chigurh.

I learned from the Corleones. I make an offer you can't refuse.
Rosenbaum's also gonna reduce the rent on the old lady and her dog.

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Harry Lime at 3:32 AM on 12/4/2007

Mr. Rosenbaum, what war was the U.S. fighting in 1995, when the "awesome" murderer John Doe was doing God's good work? Why do you assume that Hannibal Lecter in "Silence" was a response to the Gulf War? That is just speculation on your part. There have been plenty of movies covering themes of older generations shaking their heads in disbelief at the senseless violence being committed by "awesome" killers that were released on the U.S. public that had no political implications or commentary whatsoever. Your assumption that "No Country For Old Men" is a response to the current war in the Middle East is your self-importance from living in America and over-emphasis on the influence of the social and political climate on the intentions of a piece of art.

You should go back and watch "No Country" again, but this time pay special attention to the scene where Sheriff Bell goes to talk to his old wheel-chair bound cousin.

First, this scene shows that YES, the Coen Brothers DO have conviction about Bell's "wounded sense of morality." You know how I know that? Because they cast the face of Tommy Lee Jones as the symbol of this sadness. If you had watched the movie more closely, you would have observed just how much respect the Coen Bros. have for TLJ. This is a character they take DEADLY SERIOUS. The whole mood of the film reflects the mournfulness of Sheriff Bell as he realizes sadly that he has finally succumbed to his defeated resignation in the face of the inexorable black absurdity of life.

Secondly, it also points out the fundamental error in your review. When Sheriff Bell shares with Ellis, the old man in the wheelchair, his soulful resignation, and the pity of it, Ellis says: "What you got ain't nothin new. This country is hard on people.... You can't stop what's comin. Ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

Well, Mr. Rosenbaum, just like filmic themes of "awesome" killers and despair in the face of their deeds is not dependent on a war being fought by the U.S., so too is this film's poignancy not impacted by YOUR dismissive review of it. And if you think your above review is the key factor in the rise and fall of the tides of acclaim this film has received, sir, that's vanity.

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steely at 12:43 PM on 12/4/2007

This is supposed to be a movie review, right? I guess I'll skip this one lest I become "excited" by a make-believe character with a gun.

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Greg Cwik at 2:59 PM on 12/4/2007

The above review is awful. As a movie fan and local critic in my town, I'm ashamed that this is ocnsidered an actual iflm review. It's nothing but banter and rambling on liberal politics. This was not a political movie, but the author somehow finds a way to make it seem like that.He casts away Josh Brolin's character because he doesn't give a Mexican water.... how typically liberal. No, he didn't give him water because 1) He didn't have any and 2) He was a drug pushing Mexican. Who would give him water? Oh, and by the way he did go back and try to give him water later on, so he is someone to root for. Maybe the author was too busy telling whoever sat next to him in the theaters how much he hated Bush to pay attention. He also picks out one line in the whole iflm to try to make it seem like it's anti war. It's one line, and it has NOTHING to do with the War in Iraq. The Coens aren't known to be overly political, but again this wasn't a film review. It was political commentary.But then again, how can we trust the opinion of a man who hated SILENCE OF THE LAMBS? PS Harry Lime, great name. Third Man is amazing.

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Rashomon at 5:28 PM on 12/4/2007

He casts away Josh Brolin's character because he doesn't give a Mexican water...liberal...No, he didn't give him water because 1) He didn't have any and 2) He was a drug pushing Mexican.

Actually, no, Rosenbaum writes:
Moss, already marked by his relative indifference to the suffering of a dying Mexican in the opening sequence, becomes lovable only during his affectionate banter with his wife.

That is spot on. Moss forgets about the Mexican. It's not a conscious decision because the Mexican is a drug dealer. But, due to that, we the audience are supposed to see a flawed hero. And we do [or I did]. But as the movie goes on he becomes more sympathetic.

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steved1980 at 1:55 PM on 12/5/2007

In order to make a point about Good vs. Evil in a Good vs. Evil movie, one must represent Evil. Your point seems to be that Americans use fictous killers to validate themselves during times of war. You sight one example, Silence of the Lambs, to prove this point. What about all the other "killer" movies during no war?
Nobody was rooting for Chaghur. Everyone wanted Brolin or Tommy Lee to take him out. In "Silence" we were given reasons to like Lechter. Not so in this movie reguarding Chaghur.
I think people dig suspence.

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Hoss, formerly known as Movicus at 5:23 PM on 12/5/2007

I wonder if Rosenbaum considers himself as part of the America he condemns every week. Or, is it just us while he's pure, noble, and saintly?

Rosenbaum was born and grew up in the US, right? He is a US citizen, right? He pays taxes, right? He votes, right? He owns property, right? He consumers stuff like we do, right? Then, why does he always speak of America as the (im)moral Other? If America is rotten, it must because of all of us, Rosenbaum included. But, I guess pontificating about all these movies makes him holier-than-us.

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DVDBeaver at 3:27 PM on 12/10/2007

Well, I loved reading this entire thread. I find it amusing how some attempt to curry favor with their comments (even if its a Vindaloo) and others just seem to thrive on illiciting controvery. None, of course, can compare to Mr. Rosenbaum's ability to produce thought-provoking text. Can one imagine an Ebert review inspiring such intelligent or passionate discussion? Mr. Rosenbaum's comments about the film are for adults - I'm sure he doesn't expect to change your mind about politics or anything else. He is just giving you an alternative avenue of approaching this film. It is magnificent! He has been doing this for years. I hope to have the pleasure of reading him for the rest of my life. If his politics are contrary to mine or I don't support his views or idealogy - that's okay too. You don't have to get your collective back's up and start in on diatribe about why he is wrong (and you are right). This isn't about that. It's one person's in depth train of thought on a subject he knows better than most. Some people here though are just downright testy about life - not the types I want to meet at a party (not that I ever attend parties). Sorry if everyone doesn't agree with you - no matter how hard you try to enforce. You may remain disappointed. This is a good life lesson. I got a lot out of the article/review. I've been thinking of it all day in fact. Can this be anything but a good thing?

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AndrewC at 2:32 AM on 12/11/2007

I agree with you about the curious facination the public and critics alike seem to be having about movies with detached psycho characters. Kill Bill, A History of Violence etc. I love the Coen brothers movies and have no aversion to seing violence on screen, as long as it's not the central theme of the movie - that's just boring. Perhaps it's just the generation that grew up with slasher movies and are now trying to find something more credible in the blood lust? Good article. Don't agree with everything you say but it's good to have original opinions.

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gandalf at 2:23 PM on 12/13/2007

Sheesh. I hear film critics semi-privately complaining about JR's approach to film as too polemic. Yet in all the years I've heard this, I've never been given a reason *why* his approach is bad, just that it is. Let's compare this review to Darghis' reading of OLDBOY, which lead with a lede taking potshots at "fan boys." JR here examines the film via the viewers and/or imagined fans, yet the approach is a bit more sophisticated. Why wasn't movicus (morton?) over at the Times Web site screaming, or is he just as smitten by her as is D'Angelo?

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Barry at 8:03 PM on 12/13/2007

I was upset by this film, and one I'd seen on DVD the other night, "The Proposition," an Australian western with similar themes, and similar extreme violence toward innocent bystanders. That's fine. I'm not someone who needs good to triumph over evil, or neat Hollywood resolutions. But it's fair to say, and for a film critic to write, that the effect is sickening, deadening. Why shouldn't the critic wax eloquent on what the film evokes in society, what "entertainment" buttons it's pushing? The film is shot for an audience who bring moral sensibilities to the theater, not just "aesthetic" judgements wrapped in an "it's only a movie" attitude. That's an insult to the Coen Brothers. actually, who I'm sure feel they were making a work of art.

I wanted to know if I was the only other person who was sickened by the exploitation of viewing innocent people being killed (to suspend my belief for a time that it's not just actors with prop blood is the filmmakers intent). Rottentomatoes' critics all loved it, and only one (Andrew Sarris) had any moral qualms. Most of the comments under his review wondered why he didn't admire the "editing" more. Evreyone else took the gruesome bloodletting in stride. So I googled "extreme violence movies today no country old men" and this Chicago web site came up on top (I'm from New Jersey, thanks for letting me intrude). Thank God for Mr. Rosenbaum, he restored my faith a bit.

Look, the film is expertly made. So was "The Proposition." So was "Silence of the Lambs," and "Reservoir Dogs," and so many others which love mass murderers. But I've been deadened enough, and my view of human nature is already harsh enough to not applaud film after film like this. In New Jersey, the news today is about the governor trying to get the rapist/murderer of little Megan Kanker (of Megan's Law "fame") off death row. I hope the governor fails. While I wait, I'm going to be watching some light comedies for a while (I'll dust off my Chaplin and Marx Brothers tapes).

Hey Quentin Tarantino, think you can make a romantic comedy? It's a challenge. And hey Coen Brothers- can you make another one like "Hudsucker Proxy" or "the Big Lebowski?" They were awesome.

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Aaron Z at 1:59 AM on 12/14/2007

I will say that, thematically speaking, the movie really isn't all that adventurous. It's rather heavy-handed--and derivative not just of source material (Cormac McCarthy's short novel) but of the conventionality of ideas whose freshness long flamed out among Western literati. No Country is conventional in that it reads like a modernist or existentialist tome from the early part of last century. It's Camus for those who haven't read and digested Camus. It's a re-presentation of ideas hashed out by Nietzsche in the mid-19th century.

It's Philosophy 101--and probably will open up the minds of a few, keep most in its grips for its entire length (except the fat-ass snorer who sat right behind me), and have little long-term resonance with the vast majority of viewers.

That being said, it does work as a movie. And it does exhaust the existentialist source material. It's all there--from the death of God to the re-valuation of all values. And it's all been done before. And that's not all bad.

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zxcvb at 4:39 AM on 12/14/2007

Lots of good opinions, here. I pretty much agree with Movicus on all of his posts.

However, the one thing that, to me, was borderline morally objectionable and plain wussy was the Coen's eliding of the last few murders -- instead opting for a "cool" glamorization of Chigurh's carnage (a bloody footprint, a slowly seeping pool of red). It's as if they let the audience off the hook and said, "He's killed so many people already! We can't possibly stomach him killing an attractive woman, right? That would just be disturbing!"

The Coens had an opportunity to make a compelling statement on serial killer "worship" and they instead opted to join in on the fun. Did they have to? No, it's their movie. But it also completely reasonable to find their decision, frankly, offensive as Rosenbaum has.

Imagine a movie about a stylized, serial rapist where the filmmakers decide not to show the victims...or at least the attractive ones. "No one wants to see that!"

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movieCritic at 9:49 AM on 12/14/2007

If the audience stays to last frame, watching all credits, etc., they will see that this film (Coen Bros "No Country For Old Men") ends with a large cartoon of a HORSE'S ANUS, which then resolves to a HORSE'S ASS. Then a horse head will turn around, look the audience in the eye and whinney, to confirm what is being shown.

Thanks to Jonathan Rosenbaum for his fine critique of the Coen bros. It is depressing that so many sheep fell for these guys. The film is craft, yes -- however, class, no.

And Jonathan, thanks for the bonus trashing of "Lars and the Real Girl".

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Hoss at 7:58 PM on 12/14/2007

DVD Beaver wrote "Mr. Rosenbaum's comments about the film are for adults ... It is magnificent!" For adults or for adult entertainment? Boy, looks like the first time anyone got an orgasm from a movie review.
As Chief Bear used to say, 'beaver get jolly from red tree of wisdom'.

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observer at 10:36 PM on 12/14/2007

To movieCritic: make that HOSS'S ANUS. And boy does he like to hear himself
fart all day long.

Hey, Hoss, give us six more paragraphs more about this comment, too. We can't wait for it, and you've got soooo much time to spare.

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rosenthejoke at 3:08 AM on 12/16/2007

This movie doesn't allude to anything about the war in Iraq or Abu Ghraib. The fact that you mention Iraq, Abu Ghraib, or George Orwell quotes shows how big of a joke you are. The movie also isn't completely about psycho killers. If you were smart enough you would link Tommy Lee Jones dialogue and the title "No Country For Old Men" together to realize that the movie was about this topic, and that the psycho killer and action were there as a vehicle for this overlying theme. You took all the ideas and action way to far in your thinking. Next time just sit down and enjoy the art of filmmaking.

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Hoss at 6:25 PM on 12/21/2007

Hey observer, I'll oblige as you've eagerly stuck your face between my ass cheeks.

FAAAARRRRRRTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!

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Woo in Seattle at 12:46 AM on 12/28/2007

I couldn't agree more with this:

"Dcrich at 12:18 PM on 11/9/2007

Or you could worry less about what response is expected of you and just respond to the movie directly. This sort of meta-stance is pompous and grating."

...of course, this isn't to say Rosenbaum's "review" isn't interesting, it's just too bad he feels the need to say and do such much more than simply, reviewing the movie. I'm sure a straight up review would have been a much better read.

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Woo in Seattle at 12:48 AM on 12/28/2007

I couldn't agree more with this:

"Dcrich at 12:18 PM on 11/9/2007

Or you could worry less about what response is expected of you and just respond to the movie directly. This sort of meta-stance is pompous and grating."

...of course, this isn't to say Rosenbaum's "review" isn't interesting, it's just too bad he feels the need to say and do so much more than simply, reviewing the movie. I'm sure a straight up review would have been a much better read.

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Bergen at 1:27 PM on 12/28/2007

What you need to encounter is the many voices over at cormacmccarthydotcom weighing in on this film. Be warned.

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Christopher Powell at 1:38 AM on 1/2/2008

I'm glad at least one reviewer could see past the technical and stylistic merits of this film to call its deeper themes into question. Art constructs a moral universe that stands in some relation to those we actually inhabit, and it's not pompous or condescending to interrogate that. This film hits the same button over and over again: the outraged innocence of an idealized America that expects people to be decent, to be constrained by some innate moral sense, and is powerless in the face of someone who is free of that constraint. It's not ground-breaking; it's clichéd and tedious, and it's past time to start criticizing the limitations of this device and the philosophical/political assumptions that make it appealing to so many filmgoers.

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2+2=5 at 1:09 PM on 1/2/2008

"No Country" is a masterpiece of apocalyptic pessimism. The Coen brothers' adaptation of Cormac McCarthy's novel delivers the bad news with magisterial force: Evil walks the earth, dramatic closure is for fools, human life hangs on the flip of a coin, and - the hardest pill to swallow - cowboy heroism is just a bedtime story to soothe grown men. What on paper seems a simple game of cat and mouse and cat - Sheriff Tommy Lee Jones chasing terrifying assassin Javier Bardem chasing average cluck Josh Brolin with his satchel of found drug money - becomes a nearly biblical saga, and not one of the pleasant ones. The usually ironic Coens come through with their weightiest work yet, but for all the formal rigor of the filmmaking, "No Country" is about the chaos we desperately try to pretend isn't there. Vanity, vanity, murmurs this movie in response.

The film is rigorously formal, but these days you need storytelling engineers to raise your pulse. The Coens' movie has wit, Roger Deakins's panoramas and portraits, Javier Bardem's Dutch-Boy boogeyman, and, in Tommy Lee Jones, a dismayed soul that's uncharacteristic of the filmmakers. The ending baffled some people. For me it was a clincher. The world, by 1980, has descended into inexorable chaos - over a pile of cash - and all the wizened lawman can do is shake his head and sip his Sanka. This also was one of the few bloodbaths that didn't make me feel like a corpse while I watched it.

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I.N. Terpret at 4:36 PM on 1/3/2008

A FEW THOUGHTS
I went to see "No Country" yesterday and walked away with a different perspective on the film than some of my friends. I thought I'd share my interpretation just for fun. (I haven't had a chance to read all of the comments in this thread and so forgive me if this is redundant).

PERSONIFICATION OF EVIL
It dawned on me that if we had only the facts then each murder scene in the film could be seen as either arbitrary incidents of violence or part of the unpredictable cycle of violence that accompanies the illegal drug trade. Anton Chigurh, in other words, could easily be a fantasy dreamt up by a lawman who simply could not process the rising tide of random violence he was forced to face in his lifetime. Like the witches, devil and demons of past societies, the sheriff personifies evil to make sense of a universe that is becoming strange and unfamiliar.

OLD MEN
The title, NCFOM, suggests that older generations are no longer at ease in the world they once knew and cherished. They are anxious and increasingly alienated from their way of life. Evil and dangerous outsiders (ie Mexicans) walk the streets and contaminate the culture while the youth appear stupid, corrupted, and amoral. The morality that was reproduced in the sheriff will not be reproduced in subsequent generations. The sheriff has lost his will and is resigned to the inevitable extinction of his way of life. The future, as his dreams suggest, is dark and cold.

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Hawes at 8:57 AM on 1/4/2008

Saying NCFOM is a movie about a serial killer is like saying that The Godfather is the story of Sonny Corleone's impulsiveness. Yes, Bardem is a singular force in the movie, but he is not the story. Rather he's a mythic force, not human at all. He's Fate, Doom, the Changing World, Violence. Something for you to determine. I admit to being fascinated by Hannibal Lecter as a character, precisely because he seemed like an intellectual's Satan: Fiercely smart, literate, cultured, witty and utterly devoid of human compassion.

Chigurh is repellent because he lacks these things. I was never scared of Hannibal Lecter, because he's an affectation. But Chigurh is chilling, because he ushers in REAL violence, that Doom awaits with the flip of a coin.

This was not serial killer porn, but a stark picture of the capriciousness of fate and the thin thread that life hangs by.

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Prof. Z. at 3:19 PM on 1/4/2008

I hope some folks will skip the "flame war" above and read the last couple of comments which I find insightful.

I have been a "regular Rosenbaum reader" for nigh a decade now and will continue to be, despite the fact, that I think this review has little to do w/ the movie/book.

The false presupposition is what Hawes points out: the movie is about a "psycho(note: not serial) killer" Because JR is wrong about this, the whole review is wrong headed (BTW, I love O'Connor so I enjoyed thinking about her Misfit and McC/Coen's Chigurh)from the get go (you listening Jonathan?).

In addition, I think there is a stronger parallel of NCFOM w/ the Big Lebowski (and maybe Raising Arizona) as they "reveal" to us the US in the 1980's (the decade in which the Coen's were in their late 20's/early 30's), when that "sumbitch Reagan (was) in the White House" (H.I.)

I ain't gonna ramble on about how and such. Ya'll can do your own cogitating.

But let me say this: to me that is the point of the Coen's "wall" which I do not think deserves J.R.'s charity *.

NCFOM is as good as it gets for us in the US by US mainstream filmakers.

NCFOM is a film worth seeing several times, just like the "best" Coen Bros. films. We need more films that allow us to reflect in such a way--no matter how bleak--and less proganda ones-- no matter how righteous they are. Yes, I appreciated Sicko and the Inconvenient Truth but I ain't gonna see them again because they don't invite such reflection but much needed action. They are purely political pieces and not art. This is--or at aspires to be-- art.

It is a perfect portrayal (as is CMc's The Road) of what the above reviewer called, "apocalyptic pessimism." That is what we should be talking about. What is it? How are we to understand it and how it shapes us? Why is it so uniquely American? You "get the picture."(?)

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Jasper von Dropcloth at 7:02 PM on 1/5/2008

I'm not a Coen Bros fan (except for Blood Simple) but I thought this was better than their last 8 efforts. However, I've recently revised my opinion downward after a suitable amount of time has passed. I am utterly neutral (no interest) about seeing this movie a 2nd time, so it failed there for me. It also doesn't make me contemplate a thing, not even film technique, unlike the movies I do love.

How does someone like Movicus Fanisus write the longest response (and contribute over and over to a board) for a movie he hasn't seen? Oy.

Rosenabaum has led me astray before (The horrible movie 'Suture') but generally his reviews are quie thoughtful.

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garyd at 9:50 PM on 1/5/2008

Wandering into this discussion from the Slate yearly roundup, I was elated and appalled. Elated by the level of the discussion in general and appalled that I had to work my way down, down, down I say, to finally find 2+2=5, Hawes and Prof. Z (please excuse me if I missed others) breaking free from the literalism that infects our cultural/artistic lives these days.

Death never dies and we do. This explains Chigurh’s hold on us, and is the basis of the film’s brilliance.

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JamesF at 4:08 AM on 1/6/2008

DCrich, from a few comments below -who I do not know - is absolutely right. And your O'Connor comparison/analysis is way off. Geez, give us and yourself a break, why don't you? Not everything is a puzzle for you to figure out. Sometimes, things are enjoyable just because they are.

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Hardy campbell at 3:09 PM on 1/10/2008

Your review of NCFOM tells me you only saw it once. Thus, your review is next to worthless. I would suggest a second and perhaps third viewing in order for you to avoid letting all the superficial stuff (the air gun, the haircut, etc.) get in the way. I too left my first viewing thinking this was a Hannibal Lector-lookalike showcase, but my next two viewings revealed an altogether different world. Indeed, all three protagonists share common traits, the most conspicuous being their death wishes, each manifested in a different way. Indeed, one could argue that all three are in effect already dead men.

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Jake81 at 12:28 AM on 1/11/2008

Just saw the film in question last night. Enjoyed it thoroughly. Rosenbaum is obviously within his rights to "review" (if thats what you want to call it) the film in the manner in which he chose to . But for choosing to do it in that manner I am of the opinion that he is a dick

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Andre at 5:29 AM on 1/11/2008

The Coen brothers' artistic intentions for this film will not surface for a long while. Not surprising perhaps that first-time viewers would miss the irony of a such a tightly constructued and thematically layered film. The comments in this very thread (especially those calling for more graphic killings) are the quotations of Honours students long into the future.

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Heggars at 7:21 PM on 1/12/2008

More like a review of the Coen brothers and America's morals than a movie review. Those of us mature enough to discriminate between right and wrong can enjoy a movie like this without acting Jesus Christ and concerning ourselves with everyone's welfare. If it's a great movie than just say it is.

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Astounded at 9:42 PM on 1/12/2008

Wow! I'm truly astounded at what I've been reading. I was only searching the web for a deeper analysis of the movie and came upon this so I just had to comment. MF, how much time have you wasted posting on here? Is this a way to compensate for a defunct phil. degree? We get you're smart, lay off. For all the others thanks for your input, it helped to clear some things up for me.

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Heggars at 1:09 AM on 1/13/2008

MF is a meglamaniac. He doesn't stop to listen to his own ranting. Just likes the sound of it spewing forth. From everything he says we don't appear to gain a point. At least jr has something to say even if it is condescending.

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AJ at 1:42 PM on 1/13/2008

One star? It seems you must be grading on a rather steep curve. Jonathan, how can it be a "well-made genre exercise" with admirable "creativity and storytelling" that has the "primal impact of silent pictures" and is "gorgeously shot" and yet earn one star from the reviewer? The very fact that a film that you describe as such has provoked you to give it one star is evidence of its peculiar power.

I hadn’t realized that utility was your primary criteria for evaluating a film’s merit. When art is judged purely based on its usefulness, we have reached a new low as a culture. I recall some reviewers cynically damning David Fincher’s "Fight Club" as having fascist undertones. Clearly they missed the satirical edge of that film. As an aside, I feel reviewers are missing the black comedy in not only this film but also P.T. Anderson’s "There Will be Blood".

As a previous poster alluded to, your review here does strike me as similar to Ebert’s moralizing reaction to Lynch’s "Blue Velvet," where he admitted that he just had a deeply troubling reaction to it and could not recommend it. Will you at least admit that you personally had a visceral negative reaction to this film that has contributed to this, I believe unwarranted, low rating? You seem to be intellectualizing your reaction; placing yourself in the position of the conscientious objector standing up against the Coen’s perceived complicity in a culture of banal violence. I believe their film reflects a cultural slide in that direction but does not endorse nor perpetuate it.

After critiquing the public fascination with serial killers in the first part of your review, you admit that the film is not merely about a "psychopathic assassin of the highest order." I completely agree. In fact, I don’t think the film is meant to be centered on Chigurh at all. He represents, allegorically, a godless world based on chance. As you note, Chigurh isn’t actually that interesting as a serial killer. Surely his character or his motivations are not romanticized as other killers’ are in "Silence of the Lambs" or even Fincher’s recent "Zodiac." Chigurh is nature and his moral code is the law of nature. Everyone must die and when they die, and how they die, is largely left to chance. It is the other characters reactions to this worldview that is so fascinating and why the film is such a success.

I don’t agree that the depiction of human nature in No Country is bleak, it is the depiction of the human condition that is bleak, and there is a difference. Stylistically the film reinforces this growing disillusionment. The Coen brothers have stripped the film down to a raw sparseness that allows the tension to build like an echo. Long cuts and spacious shots allow the viewer to notice light refract off of a grimy window while the wind rustles the leaves. The film creates an atmosphere of spiritual isolation. Ultimately, we are here alone and we only have our choices.

Beyond the sparse atmospherics, the Coens appeal to the deeply rooted, primal, flight instinct. I think this is what most people are viscerally tapping into, not bloodlust. Much like the Bourne films, Apacalypto or even the Terminator movies, the main character is being hunted and doing all one can to avoid detection. What separates this film from those, however, is the sense of realism. This is not a film that celebrates and basks in wonton violence as your review suggests. The Coens are clearly stating, this is not an escape from reality. This is reality! It’s an allegory Jonathan. Based on the bulk of your reviews that I respect, I figured you would have recognized that.

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I know Bourbon, thus My opinion on film has merit at 9:27 AM on 1/17/2008

"But when it comes to bourbon I'm very particular (Booker's, Baker's, the defunct Hirsch, and a few rarer ones). So for me to call a lover of fine wines a hypocrite, or an effete intellectual, or a wimp, for not liking jug wine and for being able to taste something that I don't have a taste for would just plain stupid. I don't see it as a matter of better or worse. My buddy's every bit as particular about bourbon as I am, but he likes Blanton's, which I can't stand even the mere sight of."


Wow. Well done champ.

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Tjent at 9:00 PM on 1/22/2008

Grating, pompous intrusion of polical views into the review. Rosenbaum never really draws any connection bewteen psycho-killer violence and American wars ... and seems to feel no need to ("All morally sentent people will surely agree with me") Therefore it never occurs to him to examine possible meanings of the extreme violence within the context of McCarthy's story. The movie and the book contain a grim and disturbing vision and troubling moral questions. Somehow Rosenbaum just missed all this, as demonstrated by his ill-taken comparison to the superbly executed but strictly horror flick production, Silence of the Lambs. Self-righteous ideology is anything but enlightening. Its' just a form of bigotry; and bigotry is the mother of stupiity. Please, next time, Mr. Rosembaum, just review the movie

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Tjent at 9:02 PM on 1/22/2008

A grating, pompous intrusion of polical views into the review. Rosenbaum never really draws any connection bewteen psycho-killer violence and American wars ... and seems to feel no need to ("All morally sentient people will surely agree with me"). Therefore it never occurs to him to examine possible meanings of the extreme violence within the context of McCarthy's story. The movie and the book contain a grim and disturbing vision and troubling moral questions. Somehow Rosenbaum just missed all this, as demonstrated by his ill-taken comparison to the superbly executed but strictly horror flick production, Silence of the Lambs. Self-righteous ideology is anything but enlightening. Its' just a form of bigotry; and bigotry is the mother of stupiity. Please, next time, Mr. Rosembaum, just review the movie

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Cannuck Power at 6:31 PM on 1/23/2008

Wow, thanks all you right-wing nuts for reminding me how crazy you all are! I'm sure JR will continue to have a great career, considering all the commotion he can cause by expressing a "liberal" opinion about a movie. Enjoy your fake freedom of speech and fake democracy. Oh yeah and good luck with your fake election this year.

JR keep doing what you're doing and don't let these hysterical conservatives bother you at all. We just laugh about it up here in Canada.

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Louis Proyect at 10:40 AM on 1/24/2008

I was somewhat confused by the ending. Did Tony Soprano get whacked by that sinister looking guy who comes into the diner or does he live for another day of crime? That black-out was unsatisfying.

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sf at 9:08 PM on 1/26/2008

Abu Ghraib? Puleaze! I think you've got Bush Derangement Syndrome.

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Brian R. at 1:37 AM on 2/11/2008

Let's try to clarify what Rosenbaum is criticizing here and in many other reviews: metaphysics. The Coens have approached the film with some metaphysical view about the violence and brutality of humanity or reality, and provided a film as evidence of it. Despite the debates within the film, at no point is this metaphysical assumption ever really questioned. The audience and the filmmakers learn nothing as the film progresses, as the film merely serves to prove their own point. But guess what, you can make a film, write a narrative, to prove any metaphysical assumption. There is no real thought present at all. Like so many Hollywood movies, this is totally detached from any encounter with a reality that might force a reconsideration of the preconceptions of a bunch of coddled spoiled film brats. And on that point I hope people recognize the insight of Rosenbaum and mourn his retirement.

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AJ at 3:49 AM on 2/11/2008

Brian, are you suggesting that he is criticizing metaphysics in general or the particular metaphysical viewpoint advanced by the film?

For one thing, I don't think the Coens are purely commenting about metaphysical aspects of reality but also physical aspects. We all die and some die violently.

I also don't see why ontologically probing the human condition precludes the audience from "learning anything." If nothing else the Coens have offered a certain metaphysical interpretation for reflection and debate (as we are doing here).

I don't understand what you mean by "proving" a metaphysical assumption and why offering an interpretation of metaphysics requires no thought. The Old Man and the Sea offers a view a certain metaphysical view of the world (one similar in some ways to the Coens here). Was Hemingway supposed to discuss all of the alternate views of metaphysics also in his book? How is presenting a perceived aspect of reality a detachment from reality? Your argument is infinitely regressive.

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enuf at 5:12 AM on 2/13/2008

Bloviating without seeing the film? Shut up stupid! 2+2=5? Thank you.

This is a film that asks you (me) to think and rethink after it's enigmatic and abrupt ending, and asks for additional viewings to allow for further digestion. What more can you ask from a film? It makes you think... It makes you wonder... It makes you ponder. Two big thumbs up...

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Red Lamp Kolsky at 12:12 PM on 2/14/2008

If you want a quick movie review and/or plot summary of this movie, go to Wikipedia. If you want a dissertation about sociology, politics, history, psychology, and philosophy, read this movie review and all the reader posts.

While I learned close to nothing about this movie ITSELF from this site, I have been enlightened in the aforementioned topics, nonetheless. And, I certainly admit, it was GOOD reading.

Cheers.

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justin at 12:26 AM on 2/17/2008

This is one of the pompous and speculative reviews I've ever read. This was a great film and while it may seem enlightened to stand alone from the popular support this film's garnered, only if the critiques actually on the film you're watching and not some quasi-Freudian sanctimonious analysis about the human minds attraction to this type of film and then tearing it apart by using this analysis as a moral compass to add weight. Very disappointing

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Question at 3:55 PM on 2/20/2008

I'm not going to get involved in all this bad-mouthing of Rosenbaum or each other. I just have a couple questions about specific events in the film, which I have only seen one time, and which I will definitely be seeing a second and probably a third time.

First, does Chigurh have multiple guns? I thought we were to assume that he was killing with the stun gun. When Tommy Lee Jones describes the gun in the context of slaughter, he says it is a compressed-air-powered gun that shoots a metal bolt out a couple inches and then retracts it. This jibes with Chigurh's gun during the highway killing and in the many scenes where he blows out locks. However, are we supposed to assume it is the same gun that he is shooting at Moss with during his escape from the second hotel? That scene, where Chigurh turns out the light because he knows that Moss is observing his shadow under the door is pure genius, by the way. Anyway, as Moss is running, shots are ricocheting all around him. My question: is this a different gun? It sounds the same as the compressed-air tool, so I thought it was supposed to be the same. But then how is it able to shoot projectiles when TLJ has told us earlier that the cattle gun forces out and retracts a couple-inch bolt?

Next question. An earlier poster asserted that it is Chigurh who ultimately kills Moss and gets the money. Is that how everyone sees it? As TLJ rolls into town, he is greeted by the sound of machine-gun fire (whether he has two guns or one, Chigurh never uses a machine gun). Then we see the truck full of Mexicans (to whom Granny earlier told the name of the hotel) peeling out onto the street. I assumed that it was them who ultimately killed Moss and the woman in the pool.

I also had a question about the scene where TLJ entering the room is juxtaposed with cuts to Chigurh hiding. TLJ does enter with his gun drawn and does not reholster it until right before he sits down on the bed, if that makes a difference. I think I'll have to watch it again to get that scene, as the earlier discussion did not offer a satisfactory explanation.

So, any help on my other two questions would eb appreciated. I should mention that I watched the movie on DVD on a 17" screen, so I may be missing some details that those who saw it on the big screen were privy to.

Thanks.

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sxp151 at 9:59 PM on 2/24/2008

I wish there was a button on these comments that said "Flag as moronic."

This review was well-written, and I'm frankly sick of movie critics being forced to look only at aesthetics rather than at meaning when judging a film. The movie was pretty and shallow, and kudos for being brave enough to say so.

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enuf at 11:07 PM on 2/24/2008

As I saw it (on a 50" Hi Def), Chigurh had another weapon besides the "cattle killer". I have not figured out if there was a silenced shotgun as well as a silenced rifle, or just one of the above, but he had more than the cattle prod. In the final scenes, the Mexicans shoot out with Moss, and take off without the money. Chigurh comes back later and pops the lock, and opens the vent to recover the money...then TLJ shows up while Chigurh is still there....hiding. I think CHigurh kills TLJ at that point, and the rest with him is...
And no one here has mentioned the #13 references. Room numbers, Carson's counting of floors etc. Yes, watch it again. Great film.

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rd at 12:51 PM on 2/25/2008

In light of the humanistic and much better acted competetion (Juno, Atonement) how this simplistic exercise in brutality gathered 4 Oscars will forever remain a mystery to me.

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KB at 6:38 AM on 2/27/2008

You call the film a "simplistic exercise in brutality"?? This means you haven't understood anything. The film is multilayered, complex and subtle. The fact that it won 4 oscars is indeed a mystery, not because of the acting though, that's a ludicrous argument. It's a mystery because the political messages of the film are completely anti-Hollywood: there are no spectacular climaxes here with the forces of the state and society triumphing and defeating the society's abnormalities, the rhythm of the film follows an anticlimax that leaves you in the end deliberately unsatisfied; no Hollywood fantasy and fairytale here, all is about violence and money. The sheriff as you can see is completely incapacitated, no Hollywood macho punisher. Also the setting is the eighties, and if you observe the dialogue more closely, you will see that the political message is about the irreversible turn America has taken towards opportunism, and violence heated by capitalism. This is why it's strange it won 4 oscars, since it goes blatantly against Hollywood ideology. The film hints at the hypocrisy of American society; the psycho-killer and the "hero" are not very different, noding to the Darwinian killer instinct of the family man in Cronenberg's "History of Violence". The film is a masterpiece, one of the greatest neo-Westerns.

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dredg at 12:36 PM on 2/27/2008

Mr Rosenbaum I have to assume you are either iliterate, or quite young. It's a great film and holds up quite well against the book which I doubt you have read. To be honest I stopped reading your review after two paragraphs so I apologise if i am jumping the gun. Films aren't all about intricate plots with fancy twists, large gun fights and special effects...

You are a goon.

Thankyou

Adam

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rbaer at 8:07 PM on 3/1/2008

I think that Mr. Rosenbaum raised some good points, especially with regards of the stupidity of the serial killer stereotype. In my opinion, the film's biggest weakness was Chigurh's extreme badass factor with superhero qualities, reminding the ironic watcher of Steven Seagal's characters (e.g. On Deadly Ground). However, the film is extremely well made, and the bleakness of the Texan surroundings (Texan deserts and lower class vs. Fargo's midwestern snow and middle class) is well caught. Due to NCFOM's childish killer superhero factor and relative lack of humor, I find "Fargo" to be far superior.

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Randy Marsh at 2:41 AM on 3/3/2008

rd,

When "Crash" and "Chicago" gathered Best Picture Academy Awards, was that a mystery to you?

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likedthemovie at 10:50 PM on 3/3/2008

enuf, I agree with your interpretation. Now I only read the first 7 comments, then jumped to the last 7, so I might have missed something.
My minor questions, doesn't matter too much, 1) would a twist to the movie be that he doesn't kill the wife because she threw Chigurh off a bit ? and 2) why didn't Chigurh grab the bag of money from the car after the T-bone accident?
Also, I like how everyone, no matter how shocking an event they have just witnessed, can instantly be focused back to the issue of money, being bought, and their culture's nature to negotiate. ie, the 2 bike boys, the 3 Mex border guys.
Liked Fargo and liked this one as well.

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likedthemovie at 11:11 PM on 3/3/2008

ADD: These (Fargo and No Country) are like a breath of fresh air from the steady stream of crap flowing at the theaters. It's sad this is no country for old men. It's sad there is really NO PLACE anywhere, (or time) for old men.

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Vasudha Bond at 11:07 PM on 3/4/2008



Wow just because *this* person has a black heart, everyone else must have one too. Or be pretending! Ooops. Something really ugly is showing here, and if one calls attention to it, or resuses to go along, one is presumbed to be a dishonest prig. I guess peeps with "care less" attitude toward torture are made very angry if they see others display feelings of which they themselves are emptied.

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Vasudha Bond at 11:08 PM on 3/4/2008

"And as far as Abu garbe goes. I could care less about what happened to the prisoners. And you and every one else who wagged a finger at how horrible it was, didn't care either."

Wow, just because *this* person has a black heart, everyone else must have one too. Or be pretending! Ooops. Something really ugly is showing here, and if one calls attention to it, or refuses to go along, one is presumed to be a dishonest prig. I guess peeps with "care less" attitude toward torture are made very angry if they see others display feelings of which they themselves are emptied.

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Vasudha Bond at 11:51 PM on 3/4/2008

"I also had a question about the scene where TLJ entering the room is juxtaposed with cuts to Chigurh hiding. TLJ does enter with his gun drawn and does not reholster it until right before he sits down on the bed, if that makes a difference. I think I'll have to watch it again to get that scene, as the earlier discussion did not offer a satisfactory explanation."As i re-call there was some kind of noise in the room...(only saw the movie once, and don't plan it again), as though something was breaking - I thought it was the vent. And then a shot of the dime...It seemed the killer had flipped the coin and let the sheriff live. That was my intrepretation at the time. I figured the psycho had the money.My question now is still: "Doesn't it seem the psycho walked away from the accident car at the end without the money?"

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James Bond at 2:31 AM on 3/7/2008

Chigurh did walk away from the car accident without the $$.

Chigurh checked his boots, so wife was killed.

The dime was used to open the vent, (screws).

I think you guys are right, the Sheriff was killed in the hotel, per his surrender to the ways of the new (1980s) world. The rest was goodbye to dad and wife.

Lastly, they will be talking about that gas station / old man scene for years.

All in my opinion.

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007 at 10:36 PM on 3/10/2008

This review totally kicks ass. Rosenbaum's comments re the lame fascination with psycho killers (I _detested_ Silence of the Lambs) are spot on.

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blankers at 1:08 AM on 3/14/2008

the aesthetics in the movie were great, and the movie as a whole was great...until llewelen goes to the town where he gets killed by the mexicans-from then on the movie was crap...and pretty much just a extremely wimpy way to end it. apparently the novel writer or the coens couldnt think of anything better...so they just choose a bunch of scenes that are left way too open in a way that tries to seem and act artisic but are really just disappointing and annoying. the beginning of it on thru the cat-and-mouse scenes of the del rio hotel were great, from then on it just seems noone could come up with an ending. why is everyone always on the side of the crappiest dudes? just another example of the critics and a large part of the nation bein on the wrong side, i guess because they think it is the 'cool' thing. well, its not a cool thing at all.

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Smellensach at 1:04 PM on 3/14/2008

God, you look like an idiot right now, you are the only critic who gave this film a bad review, you look like an asshole

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yep at 1:15 PM on 3/15/2008

TLJ did not die in the hotel...the mexicans did not take the money...bordem did not take the money

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Moviegoer at 3:00 PM on 3/16/2008

Mr. Rosenbaum,

I see the staff at the Rotten Tomatoes website think you recommend seeing this film based on your one star review.

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acriticandfiftycents at 12:13 AM on 3/21/2008

Mr Rosenbaum does look like an idiot now. Completely missed the ball on the most successful movie at the Oscars. lol.

I agree with James Bond, TLJ gets killed in the hotel, the rest is goodbyes.

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yep at 4:12 PM on 3/21/2008

why do u guys think TLJ died in the hotel?? so he said goodbyes and retired and then went to the hotel?? i dont think so..think harder

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yomann at 1:40 PM on 3/23/2008

LMAO @ all the knuckleheads above for whom decisions by AMPAS set the standard of intelligence.

I predict that the NCFOM first person shooter video game will be even more popular than the movie and the book combined....

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chris at 8:20 PM on 3/23/2008

"No Country for Old Men" is not an intellectual film (the Coen brothers do not seem like unaware idiots to me but their films are a far cry from those of Andrei Tarkovsky). I enjoyed it because of its consistency of tone and i read it as a kind of post-apocalyptic swan song to a generation dressed up in the cloths of a dark action adventure. Its politics are pretty straight forward and raw (having read "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy I assume that this is largely due to the source material). There may be deliberate parallels to contemporary conflicts (such as the Iraq war and resulting human atrocities and media-made issues) interjected though I can’t see them as anything but light hearted jabs in the context of the film’s overarching quasi-religious theme of inevitable tribulation and the corruption of morality. This theme may be intellectual though the manner in which it is addressed is decidedly not. The review itself is interesting (I can forgive its pomposity because this is the very thing that makes it interesting to read) but not actually relevant for anyone looking for information on "No Country for Older Men". It is more of a social venting that uses the movie as a sound board and says much more about the writer than what he is initially claiming to write about.

At first it seems that this review has generated a good deal of intelligent discussion/debate and that this gives the film and the review both some kind of social weight. But as I scroll down to stare at the little words in this screen of light my interest becomes as blurred and burned out as my vision. I tend to react in kind emotionally but there is an inordinate amount of negativity in the views here. Seems less like a string of opinions then a Christian Ouroboros. As far as I can see into the human condition anger and bitterness do not reveal strength, but rather insecurity. Whatever one may think of the film, the somewhat nihilistic prophecy of "No Country for Old Men" seems more relevant to me every time I go online.

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R. D. Smith at 7:01 AM on 3/24/2008

Thank you thank you thank you thank you for this on target review!!! I am so tired of empty movies being applauded as art simply b/c they present violence in a hip and occasionally startling manner! I had a friend last night argue to me that this movie is important b/c it asks the question, When faced with evil, does one stay in the world or retreat? I reminded her that although this question is indeed raised by the film, it takes up less than 2 minutes of the movie, and the rest of the screen time is devoted to showing evil. I don't know about most viewers, but I already knew what "evil" was about before I entered the theatre--and did not need a two-plus hour refresher course. The question raised (how to face evil) is an interesting and worthwhile one, but it is NOT pursued in this movie. The question, as the reviewer implies, is simply a wall around a concentration camp.

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Alan Victor at 7:29 AM on 3/30/2008

The quote by George Orwell says it all. Thank you Mr. Rosenbaum for articulating the bad feeling I got from this movie but was unable to put into words. Thanks for your independence and courage.

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S at 7:23 PM on 3/30/2008

I live near where the scenes were filmed for the end, the hotel where TLJ goes and seems to see Anton, finds the window open etc... The room numbers were NOT changed for the film. They remain with 113 "missing" because they have always been that way. A friend of mine lived in that hotel for a few months last year. The scenes were shot, not in El Paso, but in Albuquerque. Much of the film was shot in this area. Anyway, the hotel numbering issue is likely a red herring.

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k. at 4:47 PM on 4/4/2008

You had me for a minute there. I have been grappling with the gap between aesthetic transcendance and moral and thematic muddiness too. Then you seriously draw comparison to Lars and the Real Girl- a depressingly mediocre film with moral problems far less resolved and much more dangerous than No Country...

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Hal at 1:12 PM on 4/12/2008

The moral of the story is contained in one line from Tommy Lee Jones, which was (approximately):
"....When 'yes Ma'am" and "yes Sir" went out the window, it all started to fall apart...."
Get it?
We're simply getting what we've set up !

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russell at 1:15 PM on 4/17/2008

Mr. Rosenbaum, might I humbly suggest it isn't intended that the audience assume Ed Tom's "beautiful soul" tonality?

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Yomann at 2:03 AM on 4/18/2008

I doubt the Rosenbaum is still checking this thread, but just in case he is:

Please contact Rotten Toms and have them correct their assessment of your review. I have done so, but they won't listen to me.

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Jonathan Rosenbaum at 2:53 PM on 4/19/2008

To Yomann:
Thanks for your concern, but I don't really care what their assessment of my review is. At least they quoted me accurately, and people who want to read the review can make their own assessment.

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RS at 2:22 AM on 4/21/2008

You say this is a well-made exercise but give it 1-star? Your review is very long and you should not focus in on so many alternate topics and movies in your opening paragraphs. Tell us about THIS movie!

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TommyBrin. at 8:52 AM on 4/22/2008

I agree that Rosenbaum superimposes his political/philosophical views on this film, and sees it entirely through his own biased lens of social preconceptions. This is typical of many 'intellectual' reviewers who miss the art but only see political messages. They also often inject their own feelings of persecution, inferiority, or discrimination onto the makers of these sorts of films.

My feeling about "No Country" is that in addition to being a stunning, well acted, suspense thriller, with a very dark underbelly...it is ultimately an allegorical tale about DEATH itself. Not murder, mass killing, violence, or any of the commonplace themes discussed above. I think that Chigurh represents the cold, random, unthinking, unswerving force of death, that is unavoidable, and unable to be 'beaten'. Death is unemotional, relentless, harsh, forward moving, and unstoppable. If you look at Chigurh as a symbol, he embodies the concept of 'death', in a very cold, disaffected, unthinking manner. The characters are all randomly either taken, or not taken by 'death' in the movie, and are all constantly trying to understand "why", and to escape their ultimate fate. Those that do not get taken out early (by Chigurh), will surely be taken out nonetheless, sometime down the road, by another "Chigurh", when their time comes, or their coin flip ends up the wrong choice.

Remember the famous " The Seventh Seal" by Ingmar Bergman, regarding this same theme, and using similar devices to outwit or beat death.

I think that the reason that this film resonates so deeply, and has received so much attention is exactly the above discussed connection to the universal theme of 'the inescapability of death'. It strikes a chord very deep in our unconscious, and leaves us feeling unsettled, and face to face with our deepest, repressed fears.

Of course there may be other layers of meaning attached to this film, and violence is certainly one of the obvious themes, but I think that the real underlying message is this: You can run from me, you can hide, you can cry and scream, but you cannot escape me. I am Chigurh....I am Death!

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enuf at 3:31 PM on 4/23/2008

And what about the sign in front of the Del Rio? "FREE HBO" HBO was not available in the area in 1980. Opps!@

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jared at 3:13 AM on 4/25/2008

i thought the ending was gay.

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landes at 12:13 AM on 5/4/2008

blah blah blah

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Zman at 10:26 AM on 5/7/2008

It is probably the most faithful screenplay adaptation in recent memory. The book isn't McCarthy's best by any stretch of the imagination but the 1 star review is more emblematic of the shallow critical banter rather than the movie itself.

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denny at 2:03 AM on 5/11/2008

what a group of mental masturbators.... nothing to do just like me i guess.. geez.. pathetic.. sorry i couldnt think of more big words

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SammyK at 6:10 AM on 7/11/2008

Lots of bullshit being tossed around here.

I thought I'd contribute this though:
The 'dog collar' reference was just the Coens being faithful to the book. It had jack shit to do with Abu Ghraib. Anyone who read the book would understand that Cormic doesn't give a shit about bullshit references to current events. It's just part of the story, for the story's sake, nothing else. Wanton projection of your own philosophical vomit onto your interpretation of art just discredits you on the face of it.

Sometimes, art is just art. It does what it does because it was crafted to do so, not to make a stand or to make a reflexive point about society back at us. We feel these things because they are already inside of us, not because they are coming from the art.

At least, good art.

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N Chunn at 11:24 PM on 9/30/2008

There is a point in time when one's analytical obsession and self-interest outweighs their commonsense and ability to be self-deprecating on anything but a superifical level.
Rosenbaum has passed that line, or rather danced over it in a fit if blissful ignorance.
No Country For Old Men is not a Holocaust denyer... relax buddy. I also might suggest you check the year of the book's conception with the date of the Iraq war 0 you first class pseudo-intelectual tosser. :) Cos this New Zealander cannot believe you have ruined NCFOM's chance to be one of the top ten rated films of all time on metacritic and I honestly believe that's why you did it. Are you saying NCFOM is worse than any other film you have ever given more than 36 out of a 100 John-boy?
Cos the worst, most unforgivable things is this - you abrogated your responsibility to review the film in the interest of the people, and have instead sidetracked yourself into an irrelevant and preposterous lecturing of the people to serve your own interests. How Americana nd Bush-like of YOU johnny... of YOU. Grow up dickhead.

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Chris Fotis at 8:37 AM on 1/31/2009

The review is spot on. It matched my aversion to the movie although I also felt its lingering effect as a well directed movie. One has to go to the heart of movie to understand where it is coming from. Sadly, this movie's heart is nihilism, which means it doesn't have one.

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Sreehari at 8:30 PM on 5/3/2009

It is good to have a mind of your own. Gives a nice opener into your personality.
But beyond that, if you are not able back up your image of an iconoclast with substantial, valid pointers, you are literally preaching in the cathedral of commerce.
Mr. Rosenbaum's conscious efforts to be different are not as much backed up by clear explanations of his stance, as by mere re-documentation of times bygone. So, his indifference to the world around him comes across as a shallow attempt to break existing moulds and create new ones.
For those of you who have read his piece pulling down Ingmar Bergman, you would know exactly what I am talking about here..
It was shallow, infantile and literally pointless piece. Not because it was Bergman he had run into. But because it felt like a second grader trying to bash up Picasso. Literally...
And Roger Ebert need not have written a complimentary piece for that article.
Because by writing that article Mr. Rosenbaum had ended up making a mockery of himself.

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s gentis at 3:36 AM on 5/24/2009

bla bla bla...you can talk endlessly about alot of intellectual crap and intent and glorious cinematography (all of which this film posseses) but the point is-it isn't a particularly good film. In fact-I dont think it's a good film at all, which is a CRIME considering all of the good actors in it. Amazing performences all leading to....nothing in the end.
If the Coens were aiming for a whimper and not a bang, then they certainly hit their mark.
This movie reminded me of "Crash"...I only watched the first 15 minutes of that one, and I wish I had signed off "No Country For Old Men" at about the same point....it was a prettier film certainly, but content-wise...about the same. Made for a culture with a one hour forty five minute attention span at best. No need for an actual narrative, just allude to a narrative. Pretend their's a point.....really really really intense pointlessness does NOT amount to a reason for making a movie. I know-it's intense...but so is a root canal-and no one is making movies about that.

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Outreach at 7:42 PM on 6/5/2009

This movie was decently written. Formatted a little odd but overall a good flick. The ending is what concerned me. Can you end on something better than that please. Decent arguements in your review.... everyone has an opinion. One

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