<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1" ?>




































































  <rss version="2.0" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom">
    <channel>
      <title>Comments On: More than one road to serfdom
    
      by Harold Henderson</title>
      <link>http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom</link>
      <atom:link href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/Rss.xml?oid=945914&amp;id=comments" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />      <description>Comments On: More than one road to serfdom
    
      by Harold Henderson</description>
      <language>en-us</language>
      <copyright>Copyright 2009 Chicago Reader. All rights reserved. This RSS file is offered to individuals, Chicago Reader readers, and non-commercial organizations only. Any commercial websites wishing to use this RSS file, please contact Chicago Reader.</copyright>
      <webMaster>wil@desert.net (Chicago Reader Webmaster)</webMaster>
      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0600</pubDate>
      <lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:15:00 -0600</lastBuildDate>
      <generator>Foundation</generator>
      <docs>http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss</docs>
      
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#960638]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#960638]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Paul Botts]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Heh, it's sadly hilarious to listen to Dubya groupies try to re-frame Iraq these days. FIVE YEARS in from "Mission Accomplished" and the argument is still that the Iraq is a less-awful mess than the pessimists expected? "C'mon Mom, look at the bright side -- the tree I drove the car into is still standing, and we were tossing our empties into the back seat so at least we weren't littering this time..."
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Paul Botts]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:58:55 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#963166]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#963166]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Except that you can get the SAME prescription in Canada, for what, 50% off? 70%?
    
    McCain is calling for importing drugs from Canada.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:27:21 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#961996]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#961996]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[If botching the prescription plan results in prices coming in 30% below budget, saving the country 10's of Billions of $, please please more botching.
    
    I should rephrase, after the latest troop surge, Iraq is more stable than anyone expected.  In the whole time, Iraq is more stable than I expected, but I was pessimistic.  In general, the US casualties have been small, compared to past wars.  
    
    Bush civil rights record needs serious improvement, but he is an amateur when compared to Wilson or FDR, both in wholesale (rather than isolated) violation of civil liberties.  The country survived the "damage to the framework" and some people even think Wilson and FDR were Liberal.  Go figure.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:50:44 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#948462]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#948462]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Harold]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Don't worry, John, I'm sure it's a passing phase. As I tried to say more than a year ago (http://blogs.chicagoreader.com/daily-harold/2006/09/27/america-not-so-beautiful/)
    Bush's offenses against the American form of government and civil liberties are far more significant than his specific policies. The fact that most of these specific policies have been awful causes people to splatter outrage everywhere. But his botched war and botched prescription plan and environmental ignorance will pass. Damage to the framework of our government affects everything.
    It's not just one more issue.
    
    That said, of course Iraq is not "more stable than anyone expected." That's a flat-out lie. It is still far less stable than the Bushies themselves predicted. Remember "Mission Accomplished"? Good grief.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Harold]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 09:36:30 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#953743]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#953743]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[R Totale, 
    
    George Soros.
    
    ;D
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:20:24 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#965080]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#965080]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[R Totale]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Harold,
    Aren't the populations in Eastern Europe choosing free markets? If not, who is imposing these reforms on them?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by R Totale]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 16:39:52 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#972671]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#972671]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Dagnabbit Harold,
    
    I am agreeing with you again...Yes, violating civil liberties is the worst thing that Bush has done.  The economy is pretty good, foreign policy is on a high note, Iraq is more stable than anyone expected, Medicare Plan D came in 30% under budget...  
    
    If Bush would show more respect for human rights and stop spending so much money, he may go down in history as one of our greatest presidents.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:51:20 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#950406]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#950406]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Harold]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Paul, you've gone overboard. Please read what Chris Hayes wrote, and respond to that: "From Chile to Iraq, majorities empowered to choose their own government don&acirc;&#128;&#153;t start clamoring for flat taxes, privatized post offices and an end to controls on foreign capital. Instead, they often form unions or call for increased social spending."
    
    John, I agree that democracy is a bad system if it lacks structural limitations on the power of majorities. By far the worst thing that George W. Bush and his cronies have done to this country is to try to sweep many of these limitations aside, with warrantless wiretapping, signing statements, the theory of the "unitary executive," countenancing torture, dissing international law, and more.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Harold]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 13:14:20 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#955298]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#955298]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Yes, but that doesn't mean that the "Libertarians" won't latch on to a few of the policies Hayek espoused and call for just that part to be implemented as policy.
    
    'Just because I'm rich, you shouldn't be able to TAX me.'
    
    'I should be able to hire people at the market rate, even if it's 3 cents per day and they can't survive on it'
    
    'I want to smoke dope'
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2007 12:33:24 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#961909]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#961909]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Reading over "The Constitution of Liberty" by Hayek, I am not convinced that Hayek was promoting unconstrained Democracy, rather seeing a majority rule as a tool in restraining the state, rather than as a singular method of managing the state.
    
    "The fashionable concentration on democracy as the main value threatened is not without danger. It is largely responsible for the misleading and unfounded belief that, so long as the ultimate source of power is the will of the majority, the power cannot be arbitrary...it is not the source but the limitation of power which prevents it from being arbitrary. Democratic control may prevent power from becoming arbitrary, but it does not do so by its mere existence." FA Hayek
    
    Thumbing through Klein's book, it is certainly nuts, but one point remains valid, Hayek and his "ilk" (Hayes 'words) were not proponents of Democracy as a cure-all.  
    
    As Hayek's experience with the Nazi's showed, Democracy can also mean mob rule.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:59:15 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#968387]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#968387]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Paul Botts]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Klein's book is unintentionally hilarious, leaves one feeling like she wouldn't know the real world if it bit her in the ass. It's a long string of straw men but my favorite was the over-arching one: the notion that it is somehow interesting or unusual that a new social system would propagate primarily during times of crisis or social disruption.
    
    I mean, duh -- when are human communities ever open to any big changes in thought or structure except during such times? People have inertia, comfort breeds stability for good or ill, etc. OF COURSE the spread of free-market economics has been enabled primarily due to crisis and disruption, as was true of roughly every other big new idea for the organizing of human beings going back way before the son of a Jewish carpenter was born in the midst of local civil wars. Are we going to label universal public pensions for the elderly bogus because it took the Great Depression to make the Social Security idea acceptable to enough people? Shall we delegitimize the concept of inalienable civil rights because it required enormous social crisis and chaos in order for the French Revolution to get going and serious economic/political rupture to spark the American one?
    
    Of course deeply-shitty ideas spread in the same manner, e.g. fascism and communism, as well as plenty about which reasonable people can disagree (e.g. basically every monotheistic religion). Point being just that the basic universal condition for the spread of big new ideas has nothing in particular to say about their value or legitimacy.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Paul Botts]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:01:21 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
          <item>
    
    <title><![CDATA[Re: More than one road to serfdom]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#957733]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/19/more-one-road-serfdom/#957733]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Pretty good article, though there is some fiction in it.  Paul Bremer went to extraordinary lengths to make the gasoline in Iraq sell significantly below market rates.  It did not work, there were riots, "price gouging", and black market sales of gas, which the US military decided to battle against.
    
    It seemed pretty silly to invade Iraq to impose price controls.  It is a real stretch to call this privatization. 
    
    May read the book.  
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:23:11 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
  </item>
        
      
    </channel>
  </rss>




