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      <title>Comments On: Bush&apos;s economy
    
      by Harold Henderson</title>
      <link>http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy</link>
      <atom:link href="http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/Rss.xml?oid=942348&amp;id=comments" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />      <description>Comments On: Bush&apos;s economy
    
      by Harold Henderson</description>
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      <pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 00:00:01 -0600</pubDate>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#949981]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#949981]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Of course you aren't, you are over your head trying to use that mean as an overall indicator of health for your average American.
    
    Here's another piece of info to chew on, I'll leave it up to you to decide whether Bush running up our national debt was a sinister plot, or just a case of recklessly ignorant budgetary policy.  Bush will be long gone while this damage to our currency is still being felt:
    
    http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2007/nov/25/a_crisis_candidates_dont_want_to_talk_about
    
    Put simply, a new administration faces two choices: Accept the fact that the U.S. dollar is a declining currency, which means accepting the reality that all imports, including oil , will become more and more expensive.  Or, raise interest rates---which will make the dollar more attractive to foreign investors who buy our Treasuries.  But higher rates also will make it that much harder both for U.S. consumers and for the government to pay off the heap of debt that has been keeping this country afloat.  
    
    Stepping back and surveying what has happened both at home and abroad in recent years, some observers doubt that the dollar will ever recover: &acirc;&#128;&#156;For the first time,&acirc;&#128;&#157; Bloomberg reports, &acirc;&#128;&#156;economists are raising the once-improbable specter that the dollar's monopoly as the world's dominant reserve currency is under threat. "'Part of the depreciation is permanent,&acirc;&#128;&#153; Harvard University professor Kenneth Froot, who has been a consultant to the Fed, told Bloomberg:  `There is no doubt that the dollar must sink against periphery currencies to reflect their increase in competitiveness and productivity.&acirc;&#128;&#153;''
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:52:43 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#972194]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#972194]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Carter,
    
    Grade school level arithmetic I have got down pat.  I assure you I am not over my head in being able to compute an arithmetic mean.
    
    At some point, you might realize that some numbers are higher than others, without any sinister plot from the Bush administration.  
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 07:26:39 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#965776]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Here, another bone for you to gnaw on:
    
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/26/AR2007112602206_pf.html
    
    Signs Are Pointing South on Wall St. Credit Woes Foster Bets on Bad Times
    
    By Neil Irwin
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, November 27, 2007; A01
    
    Wall Street is betting on a recession.
    
    Investors in stocks and bonds are paying prices that indicate they believe a snowballing housing crisis and worsening credit crunch will soon tip the U.S. economy into a recession, analysts said. Many economists, including leaders of the Federal Reserve, don't think things will get that bad, but some say the risk of a serious downturn has risen in recent weeks.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:12:52 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#973541]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[You refuse to do any research John, or to address any specifics that refute your rose-colored-glasses belief that the economy is great.
    
    When 6,000 people show up to interview at Wal Mart for 300 jobs, it means - and this is pretty basic, stick with me here - 5,700 people are walking away without a basic, service-economy job.
    
    Ever worked in the service economy, John, and/or for tips?  A 3% raise is far from the norm - I'm 36, and most people I know these days, big companies, little companies, wherever, are happy if they get ANY raise, thanks to the tremendous pressure coming from Wall St. (and lord knows those CEOs aren't taking a cut).
    
    But please, check out this site called "Google.com" and see if you can find some hard data that isn't so broad as to be worthless (ie the global warming deniers who rant about how a 2 degree increase in temperature is barely anything, even though that increase varies widely and even a degree has been shown to cause massive problems).
    
    You're in over your head, old boy.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:46:19 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#959789]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[1) What makes you think people are not getting more than a 3% increase in wages?  Most people do not live on a fixed income.  I refuse to do your research for you, as you ignore even basic arithmetic, but it is very likely that the proportion of spending on food is at a 30 year low in the USA.
    
    2) When people show up at Wal-Mart to look for a job, it means they want to work at the wage offered by Wal-Mart, despite the best efforts of Sen Obama and Edwards to keep people away from discount stores.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:02:50 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#958082]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[speaking of the overall health of the economy, what does it mean when 6,000 people show up to a Wal-Mart that is hiring 300 new employees?
    
    http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/business-4/119606989156620.xml&coll=2
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:29:48 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#953164]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[You again seem to have missed the point - Pop Tarts are sold at the grocery store, but they don't meet my definition of food - I'm not feeding my toddler pop tarts, if you get my drift.
    
    You asked for some backup, I provided it, but to address the larger issue, no, 4.6% inflation when people aren't getting more than a 3% cost-of-living raise (and while property taxes are going 10%+ annually) is not sustainable.
    
    Would you like some basic math to show you how this plays out in the long run?
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:01:09 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#959400]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[4.6% is not managable?  Do you recall the 13.5% inflation rate of 1980? 11% of 1974? We survived those also.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 15:25:50 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#949564]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Yes, but if you take food and energy out, inflation is manageable.
    
    Unfortunately, there's almost no one who doesn't need food and energy.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 18:43:49 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#957086]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[from that mighty bastion of the "lib'rul" media:
    
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-mon_top5_1119nov19,0,3456173.story
    
    3. No thanks for food costs
    
    As Americans prepare to join in celebrating Thanksgiving on Thursday, food prices are up about 4.4 percent, year over year. "Dairy prices are up 15 percent from last year, and that's fairly noticeable because a lot of people buy milk every week. Eggs are up 45 percent," says economist Corinne Alexander of Purdue University.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:45:22 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#947187]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[I knw I could count on John & Paul for a tag team of non sequitors.
    
    You guys go and feast on those pop tarts and enjoy the lead-tainted fruits of your "free economy," the rest of us will find  a way to work around you.
    
    Moon -  might as well give up, these guys have yet to do any critical thinking and pretty much just spew a party line on every topic that comes their way.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:41:25 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#972749]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#972749]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Let's see your hands if you would rather be in the Bush economy than the Clinton economy.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:26:42 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#954504]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Paul Botts, 
    
    YOU asserted that it was an urban legend showing up in blog posts and have yet to show it anywhere on the internet.
    
    That's what I'm complaining about.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 08:25:42 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#958583]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Hi Carter,
    
    So maybe Dairy is up, but PopTarts are down.  Overall the number for food and beverages is 4.6% as of September.
    
    Here is how to calculate an average, or arithmetic mean
    
    average = (x1+x2+....xN)/N
    
    You can use any junior high level arithmetic textbook to get more details on how to calculate averages. 
    
    Hope this helps!
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 18:26:42 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#970120]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Paul Botts]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Moon and Carter: the person asserting some fact to be affirmatively true holds the obligation to offer evidence of it. E.g. if you claim that McDonald's once paid people $14/hour to flip burgers the obligation rests with you to document that, not on someone else to prove a negative. E.g. if you insist that the rise in prices of essentials is higher than the documented rise in prices of all goods, the burden rests with you to offer evidence of that (and no, anecdotes are not valid evidence except to children and Ronald Reagan).
    
    If you are either unable or unwilling to back up such assertions then they are properly assumed to be nonsense. On these two particular points I have gone beyond assuming and checked that they both are, but feel no need or obligation to reward your rudeness here by providing links which would take any educated person 3 minutes to find on their own.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Paul Botts]]>
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    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 14:08:15 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#958029]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[So John, how about providing some back up?  
    
    Computers aren't an essential (you can use one for free at your local public library).
    
    Food is.  In fact, the Tribune's business section yesterday had a blurb on the front stating that dairy costs were up far, far higher than the cost of inflation this year.  They don't have it on their web site so I don't want to misquote, but milk and eggs were mentioned with astronomical inflation increases (one of the products was literally up 40%+).
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:22:49 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#953451]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Moon]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[It seems like if the $14/hr McDonalds pay was a such a wide-spread urban legend on blogs etc., you could link us to one of those blogs. It's also surprising that Snopes doesn't show, considering you think it's all over the internet.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Moon]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 08:23:28 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#962957]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Well Carter,
    
    People measure such things, and the rates are published.  The arithmetic for computing averages is pretty well defined.  Yup, property taxes are up, but the price of computers, for example, is actually down.  
    
    I think if you look around, those things where there is a some form of government enforced monopoly, such as property taxes (or gasoline for that matter), suffer a higher rate of inflation than products in the marketplace, such as DVD players.
    
    
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:18:54 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#973067]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[They do measure more specific goods/services, that's why I find this rhetoric of "beating inflation" so pointless.
    
    Again, seeing the cost of disposable plastic junk from Wal mart come down is little solace for those seeing their health insurance costs skyrocket.  Or are you suggesting increases of medical costs, fuel, etc are simply a gut feeling I have?
    
    my property taxes - with the alleged 7% solution restored - just went up 36% from 3 years ago, more than a bit higher than 3.5% a year, wouldn't you say?
    
    More importantly, that's not something I can choose to not pay, I don't pay the taxes, I lose my house.
    
    So let's distinguish between esentials, and the rest.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 10:45:00 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#949711]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[So Carter,
    How do you propose to measure it?  
    
    If someone at the Fed, Treasury Department etc is actually trying to manage inflation, there must be some metric other than your gut feelings.
    
    JBP
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 17:31:33 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#948500]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[believe me, after sitting in one of the CTA "public hearings," I'd support cleaning house of the whole bunch.
    
    regarding average inflation, it's as meaningful to me as the average temperature of the United States on any given day.
        
        <br />
        
          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 13:55:00 -0600</pubDate> 
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#962667]]></link>
    
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    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
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      <![CDATA[Carter,
    
    The CPI came out during these posts, see above.  Inflation is at 3.5%.  The CPI is a broad measure.
    
    With regard to the CTA, I agree, no one knows what the CTA will do with the money they get.  They could tear down more historic buildings in DePaul, they could build more on Block 37, they could start an early retirement program...and least likely of all, they could start professionally running the transport system.
    
    Having consensus that CTA management is irrational is not a very good reason to give them more money.  Sort of like buying more drinks for a problem gambler.
    
    JBP
        
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          Posted by John Powers]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 07:39:35 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#954410]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#954410]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Carter]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA["Does anyone really think that the CTA would do anything sensible with more money? Perhaps more bunched trains or bus caravans?"
    
    Does anyone think the CTA will act sensibly with *less* money?  What is your evidence that by cutting the budget it will cut out waste and not essential service?
    
    Paul, for a guy who talks about easily checking things on-line, you seem to have an aversion to it.  Are you saying the price of milk, gas, housing costs, medicine and heating fuel has gone down?
    
    Well, prove it.  I'm not the one stating that holding the line on average inflation is universally good, remember?  I know how much my bills are going up, and getting cheaper plastic lawn chairs at Wal Mart or even cheaper DVD players doesn't counterbalance that, as I can live without those items.
        
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          Posted by Carter]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 13:17:55 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#960439]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#960439]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[Paul Botts]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[Heh, indeed.
    
    $14/hour wages at a McDonald's have never been reported in either the Tribune or on any national TV news broadcast, at least not within the last 15 years. Nor has it been reported in any other major news outlet during that period. Hence no listing on any specific website is required in order to properly label it an urban legend. (Snopes after all makes no claim to be being any sort of _comprehensive_ listing of such, and this one is so obviously silly that it seems unlikely that anyone would even send it in to there.)
        
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          Posted by Paul Botts]]>
    </description>
    <pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 09:48:54 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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    <title><![CDATA[Re: Bush's economy]]></title>
    
    
    <link><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#957478]]></link>
    
    <guid isPermaLink="true"><![CDATA[http://www.chicagoreader.com/TheBlog/archives/2007/11/14/bushs-economy/#957478]]></guid>
    <author><![CDATA[John Powers]]></author>
    <description>
      
      <![CDATA[If 3.5% is considered a high rate of inflation, then inflation is beaten.
    
    JBP
        
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          Posted by John Powers]]>
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    <pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 16:15:49 -0600</pubDate> 
    <source url="http://www.chicagoreader.com">Chicago Reader</source>
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