The Blog

Not much of an argument by GW and MM there. Since a good number of farily heady thinkers thought of abortion as a form of murder, if not explicitly murder, shouldn't a lot of Religious prescripts against murder also apply to Abortion? If GW is arguing that "human formation" is the dividing line between murder and abortion, I can imagine a time not to far off where the fetus can live outside the body immediately following fertilzation. JBP

"Same with homosexuality -- compared to other themes such as the plight of the poor, widows, and orphans, the Bible says almost nothing about it. (What little is said is pretty negative.)" HH, When it comes to fundamentalists and gay-homosexuals, I always ask them about the Bible verse where Jesus expressly told his followers how to deal with the gay-homosexuals: One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." "Love your neighbor as yourself"? Damn liberals. -- SCAM

In answer to your final question, Harold, I would suggest the fine work by John Dean in his Conservatives Without Conscience. He discusses the tendency within a certain segment of the population towards authoritarianism (and by extension a desire for absolutes). In this analysis, once you accept the orthodox interpretation of the word of God, it's tough to find anything more absolute or authoritarian. This then frees the individual from making their own difficult personal choices in a complex world.

But Tim, There must be some dividing line between authoritarian and having some authority somewhere. Having the need to consult an authority to inform a personal decision does not "free the individual" from much of anything, rather it informs the individual of what society's thinkers have thought over the years. I would not describe that as authoritarian. JBP

I'll answer Wills' questions, in the order they appear: 1) Not every murder deserves the death penalty; criminal law considers the circumstances in which someone is killed. A crime of passion is different from a pre-meditated murder spree. As for abortion, one could easily argue that the circumstances of most abortions mitigate against the death penalty (although I would guess that the circumstances, particularly with regard to late-term abortions, might also recommend the death penalty). 2) If you believe abortion is murder, then exceptions for rape or incest make no sense...here I agree with Wills. 3) Again, I would have to agree with Wills, although it is my understanding that given modern medicine, there are almost no cases in which a pregnancy actually threatens the life of a mother. 4) The Catholic Church had no official policy against slavery for many years...just because they modify their moral teachings doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to what they teach (and their reasoning behind the teaching). By the way, I highly recommend everyone check out Harold's old post on homosexuality...the link to Gagnon's paper on the church's position regarding homosexuality and human sexuality is first rate theology.

i believe that abortion does constitute as murder but basically its up to the mother whether she wants to have an abortion or not...however i do agree with Wills that the church hasn't done anything or said anything to state that abortion is murder...referring to homosexualty, there is something mentioned about that in the Old Testament..however when it comes to the teaches of Jesus...that verse that is mentioned in one of those comments states that even though a person is homosexual..doesn't mean that u have to hate or discriminate against that person...he or she is a human being like everyone else..but just living a different lifestyle

JP An authoritarian personality does not have "the need to consult an authority to inform a personal decision", they have the need to have The Authority make the decision for them. And for me. And for you. -- SCAM

Thanks for the reminder, Tim -- I've been thinking Dean's book deserves a look. John, I have no problem with people consulting various authorities when making a tough decision. My problem is with people who think there's only one real Authority and who seem unwilling to let those who disagree go their own way. And to add insult to injury, they think they're entitled to special respect for it.

But consulting authority and a desire for absolutes is not authoritarianism. One can absolutely believe that abortion is a sin, while believing that God will judge the sinner, rather than a temporal authority doing the smiting. I tend to give a second nod (a "special respect") to authority, say for example the local Rotary Club President speaking about Polio eradication, that I do not give to Joni Mitchell speaking about Catholicism, for example. JBP