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I'm less concerned about torture as entertainment in film/TV than torture as plot point; I earned the ire of my TV-watching films for arguing that 24 ludicrously relied on torture practically every episode to get vital information for heroic Jack. Torture is super-useful in 24, not so much in the real world. The more realistic (not saying much, true) Sleeper Cell actually follows the process of information gathering, something that 24 didn't have time, literally to do--which is why, I submit, they relied on torture so heavily. It seems the current administration thought they were under the same constraints. Which isn't to say the aesthetization of torture doesn't bother me; I suspect (or at least hope) that Mark Madsen's star turn in Reservoir Dogs would be much more controversial after Abu Ghraib and that Tarantino wouldn't be able to revel in the device.

I always question my reaction to violence of any kind in a movie even if, as in the case of History of Violence, the film itself is questioning my reaction to it. I shy away from scenes of torture. I refuse to see Old Boy or the Saw trilogy.(Twelve years ago, however, I considered Natural Born Killers to be a great film; I haven't watched it again to see if my opinion has changed) I guess the truth is that cartoon violence doesnt' bother me, but the grueling depiction of the infliction of pain for entertainment's sake is unacceptable to me. I get the feeling that I am contradicting myself.

Jonathan, I just saw Franju's "Eyes Without a Face" and liked it quite a bit. Does that mean I like having fictional scenes of women getting surgically mutilated rubbed in my face? I guess it does. I guess it means you do too. Aren't we a couple of simple creeps.

There's a moral purpose behind Fraju's (fake) skin-graft operation, just as there's even more plainly one in the documentary footage of animals being slaughtered in his first short film. I'm not contesting either film. Showing these things for kicks is, IMO, another matter.

The only (recent) depiction of torture onscreen that I felt was warranted was that in "Syriana." I definitely winced, but then again it was quite skillfully done: most of the gore was offscreen, so we only got to hear what was going on. On the other hand, the matter-of-fact violence in "Iraq in Fragments" was probably the most disturbing I saw all year. And its inclusion in the film was absolutely necessary.

Great quote from David Thomson in the Atlantic Monthly's list of the most influential Americans: "Hitchcock...introduced the challenge that led to film's decline: Can you keep your eyes open if I show you THIS?"

I'm disgusted by this trend, movies like the Saw series (or some of the fashionable extreme Asian films like Audition and Oldboy) presenting torture as part of an "entertainment" agenda. And the cliche that torture gets answers has got to take some of the blame for real life events. But I'm fascinated by the way the scandal of Abu Graib has played out in the quicker-responding medium of tv--episodes of Lost and Battlestar Galactica (two very popular shows) have taken up the theme in fascinating ways that question the behavior of the "good guys."

I have no desire to watch the Saw films, Hostel, or any movie that exists purely to showcase graphic torture. I thought Audition was a sub-mediocre film with a very disgusting (not scary: disgusting) third act. I completely dismissed it as some random B-movie that I'd never hear about again. Then, a couple of years later, I came to find that a whole lot of people have seen it. What's more, they liked it. It even made one of those cable-network's Top Scariest Movie Moments lists. (Huh? Scary?) On the other hand, films like Reservoir Dogs (mentioned by another poster) has a torture scene that's incredibly difficult to watch, but it works. It moves along the plot. It strengthens characterization. I guess I'm of the mindset that torture in films is OK if it actually has a point beyond grossing out audiences.

I don't go to see the teenage horror/exploitation films like Saw, because of the gratuitous violence. I don't have a problem with violence in context, but when used gratutitously, I find it repulsive. The Japanese film Audition is one of the most shockingly violent films I have seen, though I think it is defensible. I wouldn't want to sit through it again, however. Chien Andalou's violence was quick, shocking and also defensible. David Lynch (who cites Chien Andalou as his favourite film) also uses violence, perhaps gratuitously, but in such an artistic and enthralling manner. I would include Reservoir Dogs in the same category as Lynch's films and I didn't have a problem with it. Though I squirmed, it didn't put me off the film. Personally, I found the violence in Pan's Labrynth gratuitous, unnecessarily graphic, brutal and shocking. Not only does it preclude a younger audience from what could have otherwise been a worthy film (for youngsters), but it also alienates many adults. It at least partly takes it away from being a potential 'arthouse' film to being just another exploitation film.

I think most of the people who watch "torture-porn" and slasher flicks are usually not people that really have to deal with death, at least not on daily or weekly basis. That is why these films largly come from the "1st world" (ugh, what an arrogant term). I have a real problem with comfortable people watching and reveling in these films as entertainment, when there are people living in places where, everyone has a dead family member or more than one, or where such torture does occur. Even when there can be some justification, we still must think carefully about our position in the world. All that said, there are some excellent films with lots of sick violence, and some of those films I like a lot. I wish I didn't though.

"1st world" (ugh, what an arrogant term)” I think that is why some prefer to refer to the “1st world” as the “Global North” these days and to the “3rd world” as the “global South”, although “Global Center” would probably be a more accurate term for the latter.

I really enjoyed Pan's Labyrinth, but I had been told about the torture scenes before hand so I knew when not to look. I can't stand to see people being tortured. It makes me cry. I have a friend who enjoys watching torture. He has seen Audition and recommends it to everyone. It really bothers me that people like watching that kind of stuff. I want to know what makes them like it. I found this while searching for some kind of answer to that question.