Monday, November 1, 2010
Crickets / Music It's Time to Make a Clean Break With Ronny's
Posted by Brian Costello on 11.01.10 at 05:27 PM
Maybe there would be gaping holes in the floor so you could fall and break your legs in the basement. Maybe the bartenders would coldcock you with brass knuckles if you tried ordering a drink. Maybe it would smell like the Angel of Death's farts. Maybe the room would make the bands sound like they were playing in a collapsed Chilean mine. Maybe every act that had the misfortune to get booked there would show up for the first time and decide on the spot to call it quits and go back to school for their MBAs.
In reality Pancho's is nowhere near as bad as Ronny's. It was actually a fine place to watch Loose Dudes blast through their skatecore originals and Halloween covers (they did all four songs from Black Flag's Nervous Breakdown EP). The sound was decent, the smells were no worse than at the average house show, and the atmosphere of the place—unlike at Ronny's—wasn't so dire that it made Last Exit to Brooklyn feel like an Up With People number. It was kinda like in elementary school, when you'd get a substitute teacher who seemed cooler, nicer, and more knowledgeable than the one you were usually stuck with.
Which leads me to a painful but inevitable conclusion: Ronny's shouldn't start having shows again. If MP Productions is going to go through the trouble of properly licensing a finding a properly licensed small venue, it should be a different one shouldn't just be Ronny's with a PPA. The Chicago music scene, and the people who support it, deserve better.
This is by no means a knock on the people who booked at Ronny's, did sound there, paid the bands, and so on. They tried their best to make it work—and I did have some good times at the place, both playing shows and watching them. But the phrase "polishing a turd" seems pertinent (especially since at Ronny's you could often catch a powerful whiff of something that smelled a lot like the additive in natural gas). If there's a chance to find a better venue, like Pancho's—a place with better sound, better smells, and a friendlier bar staff—all the more reason to leave Ronny's behind.
My point isn't to say, "This just in: Ronny's is a shithole!" And if you played there, drank there, or watched bands there, you don't need to hear it. And I loathe the hackneyed fake-blue-collar corollary to that, which says, "This bar is a dump and is therefore amazing and more real." Maybe Algren and Royko would've loved sitting at Ronny's amid the hipster trash and neighborhood drunks—and to be sure, you don't get that kind of witty-gritty repartee at the T.G.I. Friday's bar in the Woodfield Mall. But if you spend enough quality time in places like these, the romanticism fades away. It's just alcoholics yammering about nothing.
Ronny's has served as a reminder of the void left behind when the Fireside Bowl stopped being a regular all-ages venue—a void that still hasn't been filled. It's embarrassing to me that touring bands played at a place as nasty as Ronny's—who knows how many were left with the impression that that's how things are done in Chicago. I played probably a dozen times there, and after a while I stopped asking my friends to come to the shows, not wanting to subject them to the vile bathrooms, the bartender who screams at you if you play the jukebox (and couldn't give a runny malt-liquor shit about paying customers), and the general pallor of buzz-killing despair. Luckily, in recent years plenty of DIY spaces have cropped up, providing a counterexample to Ronny's—because they aren't businesses, they're free to let passion for music and support for artists override concern about the bottom line. Ronny's became a venue of last resort for bands looking to book tours on short notice, if that. Those two Will Oldham sets in late September were big news precisely because they were so freakishly outside the norm.
I doubt I'm alone in this, but to my eyes it was always pretty obvious that the folks who owned and operated Ronny's didn't really want the bands and their audiences hanging around. Live music, especially live music with limited commercial appeal, ranks somewhere below karaoke and trivia nights on the list of things struggling bars might do to bring in new business.
So now that Ronny's can't do shows, at least for now, it's a good time to move on—especially because Pancho's seems to have potential. The tireless efforts of the folks who struggled to make Ronny's a viable venue deserve respect and appreciation, but I for one won't be sad if the place goes back to being a corner bar whose doorway yuppies and hipsters fear to darken.
Comments (40)
Showing 1-40 of 40
"In reality Pancho's is nowhere near as bad than Ronny's."
Or that sentence's syntax.
-- MrJM
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Wow! You REALLY don't like this place! The funny thing, is we wanted to head out there at some point soon to see a show because we heard good things about the place and it seemed like was possibly a hidden treasure, but apparently it isn't. The way you describe it almost sounds like the Mutiny...although we think the Mutiny is actually a pretty cool place to see a band, depending on the night. We'd really like to know of these DIY places that have cropped up. It would just be awesome to see a show in a place where there really is some true musical passion in the air.
Pinto and the Bean
www.pintoandthebean.com
This is a long overdue calling out. My vote for worst bathroom in America, and possibly, the Western Hemisphere. Good riddance to Ronny's "Center For the Performing Arts."
There are some places that simply don't have the infrastructure to work as good music venues - Lilly's in LP comes to mind as a more upscale version of this.
Can the Reader try and get mayoral candidates to express a position (or in a fantasy, support) for small to mid-sized music venues?
Generally agreed... the place was a novelty for how *actually shitty* it was, beyond normal dive-bar standards. It was fun once in a while though, when a band you knew was playing. In its defense, it had been fixed up a bunch in recent months (at least the performance space). I talked to Ronny (?) about six months ago and complimented him on the improvements, and he said proudly something like "You haven't seen nothing yet." I got the impression he enjoyed having flocks of people coming in the doors. What bar owner wouldn't? The Bonnie "Prince" Billy shows last month were great, well run with good sound. That said, if Pancho's is up for the task then I'm all in favor of it.
MP's entire business plan was to use Ronny's until it got shut down. They went for 2 years doing little, if anything, to help Ronny get a PPA or fix up the space. MP used Ronny's because it was dirt cheap and Ronny put almost no restrictions on them. Not just because he was eccentric, but he was damn near broke.
Ronny did the crude soundproofing on his own dime and, as someone who lived nearby, it was pretty effective. Despite his colorful personal it was his relationship with cops and neighbors which kept it going as long as it did.
Ronny's difficulties were mostly self-created, but the opportunistic nature of MP and its audience made for an occasionally strained and hostile relationship. The MP crowds increased the stress on the shabby conditions more than the extra income enabled upkeep. While the bar had minimal selection and service, but it didn't help how some insisted on sneaking in outside liquor and how others could be rude and condsecending, treating Ronny, his staff/family and the non-hipster patrons as a freakshow backdrop.
The few problems I had as a neighbor arose from MPs lax crowd control. They were responsible for bring a mass of drunk rockers to a largely residential area, but left the impact up to chance. When the smokers out front or people leaving the bar did get out of control, it was a pain trying to get MP to act.
I have no idea why the city finally decided to bust Ronny's, but it would be nice for MP to help him out a bit.
I find it interesting Brian Costello, for all his punk rock earnestness, treat's Ronny as beneath contempt and disposible. I guess middle class white rock authenticity doesn't extend to recognizing, let alone dealing with, the racial and class issues which informed that scene. Instead he expresses disdain without examining the less noble reasons which inform it.
In response to the comments left by EventTracker, although Ronny may have taken a few steps to improve the music room it does not make up for the fact that it was a terrible place to play or see a show. Bands never get paid there, if people snuck in their own booze it was due to a really awful and over priced selection and the bartenders were obscenely rude, to a point that it was impossible to believe had you not experienced it firsthand. In fact, Ronny's wife has thrown out three different girls I know for "hitting on Ronny" over the course of the last two years. The woman clearly has mental problems. Everyone, especially bartenders, have their bad nights but excessive rudeness is a whole different story.
Being in a band myself I make it a point to see a couple shows a week. It's important to support bands and the venues which host them. That being said, I live less than a two minute walk away from Ronny's and I would purposely not see shows there, touring or local acts, simply because it was in such a horrible atmosphere. The natural gas scent is no joke. One show I went to attend was actually shut down because it was so strong.
Lastly, racial and class issues which informed the scene? Huh? We're still talking about Ronny's right? Everyone may be entitled to their own opinion, but I know I speak for MANY when I say that I'm glad Ronny's is gone, even in a time where venues seem to be getting shut down left and right.
I couldn't have said it better if I wrote the article myself. As a musician, a poster artist, and a human with a functioning olfactory system: thank you!
good article Brian, I appreciate it, as far as some of the comments, you are really clueless as to how things operated there, we care about Ronny and did everything within our power to help him improve the place, but mentally and financially he was never capable of progressing with the place, it was exhausting and depressing mostly, it was doomed from the start, sorry for trying.
"it was exhausting and depressing mostly
"it was doomed from the start
"sorry for trying."
Finally -- an epitaph suitable for my tombstone.
-- MrJM
What are you talking about? My old band used to play Fireside in the very early days, believe me Fireside was almost as bad as Ronny's. Of course years have passed and now everyone romanticizes the place like it was this amazing venue. It wasnt, I remember. But what happened is that no one really cared that much, and you could see great bands every night of the week. The guy that owned Fireside didn't want us around much back in the beginning either, until he saw how popular it was getting. I don't know the author of this article's story, maybe he was there at the Fireside in 93-94 I dont know, but I have a pretty good memory and that place sucked and everyone knew it sucked. It became a vital place for bands to play later. But really you don't remember the bathrooms at the Fireside, the asbestos smell etc? Nostalgia is stupid. I can imagine the ones pining for the glory days of the Fireside Bowl were probably in middle school when we were playing there and no one was showing up in the early days, but whatever its much easier to romanticize the past and pretend it was amazing.
Move to a place where there are literally no small venues left and you will quickly learn to appreciate a place like Ronny's (and its scent)! I always had a good time there, even before it was Ronny's. And I don't think its as shitty as the Mutiny personally. They call them "dives" for a reason... what do you expect? Marble floors and bathroom attendants?! Also, I never thought the Fireside was a shithole back in the day! I was too excited to see shows any night I wanted -- only a couple blocks from my apartment. Ahhh, just puppy love I guess!
What?! Brian you are killing me! Literally the best show I saw in 2008 - and the best time I've had at a show in years - was Baby Alright at Ronny's. There was drinkin, dancin', sweatin', and I believe a level of gettin' naked that no other venue would have facilitated. For the right kind of band and the right kind of fans, Ronny's was the right kind of place. And your facts are just wrong, because the late lamented Fireside actually had *worse* bathrooms than Ronny's, and was a total dump with warped floors and leaks in the ceiling that might get you wet if it was raining. I know people whose upper lips still tremble at the word Fireside, remembering the smell. (Not to mention The Mutiny, where it is often asked if they salvaged The Fireside's old bathrooms.) So, sorry man, but if Ronny's stays closed, we would need another Ronny's to open. Maybe not for you, the musicians and critics, but we, the drinkin', dancin', rockin' fans.
Having owned a 21+ rock club, run an all ages venue, worked at Fireside Bowl, worked with and been in a band with Mr. MP Blows, and watched Brian Costello make a drunken ass out of himself, and listened to his crappy bands, I feel pretty comfortable saying this. Until you've put on all ages punk shows regularly anywhere, but especially in this city, your opinion just doesn't matter, because you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I've seen a lot of good show at Ronny's, the staff was always friendly enough to me (try tipping), and if it wasn't a dive, they wouldn't have had shows there. You only get back, what you put in, and frankly the rank and file members of Chicago's music scene just take and take, and whine, and whine. Hey Brian, why don't don't you start by packing up your drum kit, and stop making your band mates do it for you.
fuck this, i'm moving back to detroit.. you fuckin' whiners! if you go to shows for the environment and friendly attentive servers etc. go downtown or some shit and pay what it costs with yer fancy ass... also, granted, ronny's sucked, but what you were there for? fireside sucked too.. and i loved it.. i've played both, and had a better time than metro or bottom lounge or lincoln damn hall.. glad gentrification has worked out so well for you chicago! you may just chase me off yet..
"Maybe not for you, the musicians and critics, but we, the drinkin', dancin', rockin' fans."
Perhaps the fans ought to consider actually paying/supporting the bands they want to see.
It's hard to generate a lot of empathy towards a viewpoint dependent on an economic model where bands don't get paid.
Despite ALWAYS tipping well, that dragon lady of a bartender never treated me with any kindness at all. And the drinks there were grossly overpriced. Also, I think arguing over "whose bathroom is the stinkiest" is a futile pissing contest, literally and figuratively. Ronny's, good riddance.
@Patk12345: We're all terribly impressed by your resume (Wow! You owned a 21+ rock club?! Did you serve Paul McCartney wings and Heavy Metal French Fries?!), but you must've been drunker than shit at 4:25 in the AM to maintain that the only opinions that matter here are those who regularly put on all-ages shows. Lay off the red headed slut shots next time you decide to rant on here like a dumb dick.
See the problem here is the people defending Ronny's in this thread are so tone deaf to the actual argument being made that they are equating a critique of a place that didn't have a god damn light in their god damn bathroom for literally five months with a general intolerance for a "shabby" club which I think everyone is cool with. The bartenders were horrible despite tipping and they just didn't pay fucking bands which is the worst thing you can do as a club. To the 21+ club owner, here's a thought: we're critiquing this place from the role of patrons, not owners. No one gives a shit about your fucking credentials, sorry. Ronny's smelled like shit and was horrible. The Mopery was total chaos too but it was great because the people running it were cool to bands. As for the person threatening to move back to Detroit because of this: 1. Do it, no one cares 2. There are about 10,000 shades of grey between Ronny's and Lincoln Hall and I think everyone is probably cool with about 9,990 of them. It's just that Ronny's went completely beyond the Mutiny or Crown Liquors or some basement and really didn't deserve to be hosting the level of acts they were. There are probably dozens of bars that would be happy to take the clientele and do a better job.
There may be other bars whose owner's/manager's would say they would have been happy to book the bands that played at Ronny's for the past two years but they didn't. While it may be time for Ronny's to quit the music business, awesome shows took place there during a period where most other venues couldn't get me in the door. It's not that the booking/production staff at Ronny's deserves street cred for operating out of a dirty dive – they deserve credit for rubbing two sticks together and creating fire. It's been said, and maybe it's the same argument used to defend sweat shops, but many bands had a place to play in Chicago at Ronny's during what was likely the worst decade for touring bands in a while. I'm sure most would prefer to play the Empty Bottle, that place seems to have the magical balance of polish and passion. Perhaps musicians need to be better at business or be able judge whether they're any good or not before booking shows and hitting the road. I thought taking risks and hating business was part of the appeal of the musical arts.
If MP Shows picks up another similar venue in which to book, can you please pay your acts fairly, make sure you take money at the door, offer a guest list that's better than, "Well, I guess your girlfriend can get in" and offer the acts a small buy-out if the bar owner isn't going to give them anything?
"Perhaps musicians need to be better at business or be able judge whether they're any good or not before booking shows and hitting the road. I thought taking risks and hating business was part of the appeal of the musical arts."
And here I thought it was a love of playing music for people who appreciate live music.
It doesn't matter how good a band is when the accepted business model is "we don't pay you."
As a long-time gigging musician, I don't have much respect for any joint which pays their staff but not the band. Regardless of the draw on any night, the doorguy, the bartender, etc don't have to bring equipment in, be the focal point of the evening & aren't subject to a double standard of compensation.
Ever played a 11 pm gig when it snowed from 4 pm - 10 pm that day?
If clubs want bands to perform as professionals, they need to return the respect. Or perhaps more to the point, if clubs want bands, they might want to consider they play a role in ensuring that being in a band is a viable career option.
ronnys was awesome and a living hell at different times for different people, as was fireside, it was the spirit of the place that made it fun, it was a horrible business model for anyone wanting to make money, MP, Ronny, bands, staff etc, the goal was to be able to try and book every touring band that needed a show no matter how unsuccessful it was going to be, thats what Fireside was about, the priority is always the touring band when we book shows, thats why we do this. Everyone has valid points about Ronnys good and bad, do you think we enjoyed working there? drinking there? made money? rarely, but when shows were fun they were really fun, sorry you missed out.
I can't believe that no one has pointed out that Pancho's is a CUBAN joint, not MEXICAN.
I thought Pancho's served Cuban, Mexican, and Puerto Rican food, and at any rate this post was hardly the place to go into detail about the menu. How about I just change it to "Latin American" instead?
Aw. Ronny's was gross, but some of the best shows I ever played or saw happened there. Who knows why. RIP. And MP, while they were totally sketchy with pay for local acts, did provide a nice openness in terms of opportunities to play. You punks vs. promoter knee-jerk kids are like the Teabaggers/PETA of the Chicago music scene. Chill the fuck out!
@case of the punks Easy tiger, I was making an observation (while quite sober) from an informed point of view. You're actually the one ranting like a "dumb dick". Discuss.
"Until you've put on all ages punk shows regularly anywhere, but especially in this city, your opinion just doesn't matter, because you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about..."
Great argument, buddy. It's like saying only bus drivers can point out that the CTA's notso hotso sometimes.
Anyway. As someone else pointed out on here: Nobody cares about your "credentials." Now go run along and do one of your little "Bud Light Presents: Local H" concerts at your 21+ rock and roll club.
@case of the punks Again, easy tiger. You still haven't actually expressed any opinion regarding Ronny's or the article about it, which is sort of the whole point of the "comments" section. This only lends credence to my argument that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about. You can't even manage to be civil, all you've done so far is talked a bunch of shit about me, (that's comically off the mark, by the way) and come off as really ignorant. How sad for you. Really looking forward to your next posting, I always enjoy a good laugh.
Perhaps I'm wrong, but Ronny's didn't paid the bands. The booker/promoter MPshows did. MPshows has always been famously stingy with money. Everyone knows this, complains about this, and most bands accept that probably they aren't drawing enough to warrant a real payout. Or that the $25 they earned could be put to better use by the touring band. In MPshows' defense, how much money could they possibly make any given night at Ronny's? Despite this they've been in business for years, booking dozens of bands every week.
Ronny's is what I describe as a "what you make of it" venue. Despite its filth, smell, and generally hostile vibe, I had good times there, both performing and watching/drinking. What separated it from other, more noble dives like the Mutiny or Cal's is the general contempt shown to the bands and audience by Ronny and his staff, NOT by the folks working the door and sound. Imagine if YOUR job was to go to Ronny's EVERY night and try and appease a headliner that got cut off 10 minutes into their set by the angry, drunken bartender?
That said, the general horribleness of Ronny's did have its appeal--once every 4 months.
Again, good riddance. And good luck to MPshows at wherever they end up. I'm sure I'll be there before too long.
you say stingy as if we were hoarding stacks of pennys from the (average) $53 worth of donations which needed to be used to cover expenses, touring bands, sound system, if a local band ever walked with nothing, we did the same or worse (we can't absorb loss with bar revenue), its ok to have a love/hate relationship with the man, the place, the people but it happened for better or for worse, we are excited to move forward, xoxobp
"Maybe they could just move their shows over to Mortville...
-- MrJM"
Isn't Makanda, IL a little far for you guys up north?
I’m a Chicago girl *born and raised*, been to Ronny’s many times, and always had a fine time (if not waaaaayyyy better). The bar is perfect for drunken dancing, moshing, or just hanging. It’s a nice, intimate place that actually has character-a hole in the wall and a gem-that outsiders are lucky to be allowed into. The bartenders are nice if you tip, just like anywhere else, and the bathrooms are only as gross as the people who use them. The beer is a far cry from overpriced, and a $5 cover is totally reasonable. Yah they didn't do so hot paying the bands (and that SUCKS...I'm a musician too) but blame mp shows and the NFA. ART ISN'T APPRECIATED in our culture...for musicians to make any money at all, you have to be on the radio. Real musicians understand this- and do it anyway (or sell out, or both). Anyway, the money going through Ronny's wasn't going to make or break anyone-and again, it went through mp shows. These over the top criticisms of the place are so sickening! Get a life-it’s supposed to be about the spirit of the music-not forcing an obviously struggling dive to break their backs pleasing you . So what if Ronny’s doesn’t kiss ass? That’s their charm-or it was. Too bad hipster yuppies expect wicker park at half the price.
Hi Brian, great article.
You just coined a new phrase, I believe: 'HIPSTER TRASH'.
Wow, I never heard that one before, and I hope I'll hear a lot more of it in the future.
Hipster trash is something that seemed to come out of Wicker Park in the early 90's and has blossomed more and more every year. It also seems to have infected Brooklyn with their own copycat version. On the otherhand Portland seems to have birthed it's own form of hipster trash in the 90's:
let's shoot heroin and not shower.
The funny sad thing about Chicago bands is it's only cool to see a band if your friends with the band or in a band yourself within their incestuous scene. No outsiders please...
